Tank crash and I can't find the trigger, heartbroken

Moonrize

New Member
So we got into aquariums about 5 years ago with a little 20 gallon fresh water, within months we had a 20 gallon nano salt water to and from there it just got addictive. I spent lots of time researching eco systems with no mechanical filters, we first had hang on back refuges but then progressed to a 10 gallon sump, I even converted the freshwater to no filter and everything was running superb. When we moved from Idaho to Oregon we went over the mountains and got stuck in a snow storm, when we finally arrived at the new house after 33 hours the storm took the power out, this left all my tank that had been meticulously packed being out of the tank for little over 2 days, needless to say we lost everything, corals, clowns, crabs. It was devastating and although we set the tanks back up with the live rock and sand it was a real long time before we ventured into getting anything else. I picked up a 55 gallon tank and finally we made the switch about 6 months ago and we picked up sand from the coast, the tank came with rock so we set it up with about 40lbs of sand (a 3" sand bed), about 60lbs of live rock, upgraded the sump to a 20 gallon with chambers, center chamber is sand from the old tank and will be used for macros and growing things out then we have a single reactor with GFO and carbon mixture in it, no skimmer but the overflow is a multi level siphon. So the change over came and I cycled the tank by using water from the existing tank and the cycle actually took two weeks only doing it this way which I was really surprised at. A week later we moved the little clown we still had that we got after we moved and the few crabs we had. Over the next few months we added some peppermint shrimp, a chocolate star, a red scooter blenny, a lawnmower blenny, engineer goby, a green brittle star, decorator crab,1000s of pods, lots of snails and crabs (pods and cleanup crew went in before the others). Everything was running great, brittle was being hand fed and doing superb and so was everyone else. I had so hair algae but every test showed 0 to everything even phosphate and a ph of 8. I assumed the bloom came from the lights as they came with the tank and were who knows how old so we got new bulbs with a 50/50 65w, four of them.
Then came the baby .... my baby (16 months) managed to get into the stand and cracked the refuge tank with the heater, breaking the glass heater, needless to say the baby lock went on the stand. I picked up a new 20 gallon, drained the refuge, moved all the baffles and the sand in the center chamber and replaced everything and all was up and running again within 2 days and before I had 10 gallon of water on the floor. Things looked good, I had not disturbed the sand that much when I transferred it so the water was pretty clear and everything started running as normal. Everyone seemed happy, the following morning was not so happy. About 16 hours after the refuge was put back in I wake up to 3 dead peppermint shrimp, a dead emerald crab, a scooter breathing heavy, an engineer goby that is actually out his hole which he never fully came out, a brittle star losing all it's bristles and a lawnmower blenny not looking good either. I immediately started making up saltwater. I drained about 25 gallons and replaced with new water over the next few hours, I then replaced another 10 gallons or so throughout the evening, also cleaned the reactor out and put in fresh charcoal and GFO. The lawnmower died, brittle finally fell apart and died by the evening, did tests for everything and nothing showed wrong (results below). This morning chocolate is falling apart, scooter has barely moved and still breathing really heavy, clown just looks off and engineer is out but slowing in his movements, I am at a loss, I am guessing the sand bed released toxins that have caused the crash but I cannot trace them and just ordered another bunch of fish that are supposed to be here by the weekend.
Tests before water change were;
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

After water change I tested everything I could (yesterday afternoon before starfish died)
Ammonia barely 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0.25 (between this and 0)
PH 8.0
Calcium 420
Hardness 10/179
Salinity 1.023
Tests this morning (about 10 hours since last water change and during the night with the loss of choc, also pretty sure there are at least another 2 peppermint shrimp in the tank somewhere but I cannot find them and don't want to disturb anything else, there are still lots of hermies that I am sure will find them)
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
PH 8.0
Calcium 420
Hardness 10/179
Salinity 1.023

Help!! apart from doing water changes is there anything else I can do?? We decided we will get a 3 or 4 chamber reactor system that we can use as a backup filter, or maybe a canister filter, something we can turn on whenever we do something out of the normal, such as replacing a refuge or after cleaning rocks or disturbing something, like a quick clean type of thing to give the tank cleaners time to catch up. But is there anything I can do now? is there any way of testing what is killing them?​
 

flower

Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear of your ordeal.

The broken heater could have zapped the tanks water. I had a heater break, zapped the tank, next day my serpent star lost it's legs as it moved across the tank, it was heartbreaking to see. Only the critters in and on the rock were affected (fish swimming were okay), but I also had a GFCI outlet that helped minimize the zap. Running carbon to get rid of any toxins was a smart move, I would think that, and the water change, should take care of any toxins released from the sand.
 

Moonrize

New Member
Thx he broke the heater about 2 weeks ago, I only noticed the crack like 5 days ago and it wasn't leaking, think he had started it and it took this long to become an actual crack, it started to leak so had to pull the tank 3 days ago I think it was. My clown now has cloudy eyes and is swimming sideways, almost belly up, the scooter is still breathing but hasn't moved in hours and I haven't seen the engineer for a little while. The decorator crab is still moving and not acting wierd and none of the hermits seem effected, haven't seen a snail move in quite a while either =(
 

Moonrize

New Member
And thx pegasus for the link, yep sounds like that could be what did it, the sand was from the original tank so probably 5 years old, when we moved it the first time it never had anything in it and the gfo and carbon were going during the cycling. It did smell pretty bad when I moved it and it was out of water for maybe 12 hours while the silicone dried on the baffles, I had assumed it was just the saltwater smell but thinking back now it was even more potent then normal. We were lucky we didn't have anything major in the tank yet, the crash we had from Idaho had about $600 in stock that we lost, this time it will be maybe $100 just so disheartening. We have decided to get a 5 stage canister filter to add along with the refuge and will use some media constantly and others only at times we do something that could cause issues like this again. Expensive hobby but this will be a very steep learning curve that I know I will not make the same mistake again.
 

Moonrize

New Member
One thing I am wondering is I need to go into town tomorrow (I live very rural) and I am thinking I might pick up a little chromis or something and introduce it as I cannot test for anything else but that would be the best way I can think to make sure the water is cleared up now. I know it could mean entering death valley for the little guy but with 5 fish and some inverts arriving Thursday/Friday I need to know it is safe for them as I am not sure I can refuse delivery =( I am doing multiple water checks and nothing is registering apart from the slight ammonia from the death and carnage, I think I will also do another large water change tonight.
 

pegasus

Well-Known Member
I would try to get in as many, and as large water changes in between now and the time the new fish arrive. If it's a mini chamber, change out your carbon and GFO every couple of days. You want to displace as much of the old water as you possibly can, because shipping is stressful enough for new fish, and any pollutants just might push them over the edge. Once the new fish arrive, I highly recommend using the slow-drip method to acclimate them. I do it will all new arrivals, and have never lost one since I started. This way, if there's anything nasty left in the water, it won't shock them quite as bad as adding half a cup to the bag every 15 minutes or so. While we're on the subject of new arrivals, it's highly recommended that you quarantine all new fish for a few weeks before introducing them to the display tank. In this case, it would serve a dual purpose: you can monitor the new fish to make sure they are healthy and won't infect the DT, and it will also bide you more time to get the water cleared out of the main tank. It would be ideal if you could change 100% of the water, and it won't affect the bio system, as the beneficial bacteria lives in the rocks and sand. Just my 2c...
 

flower

Well-Known Member
And thx pegasus for the link, yep sounds like that could be what did it, the sand was from the original tank so probably 5 years old, when we moved it the first time it never had anything in it and the gfo and carbon were going during the cycling. It did smell pretty bad when I moved it and it was out of water for maybe 12 hours while the silicone dried on the baffles, I had assumed it was just the saltwater smell but thinking back now it was even more potent then normal. We were lucky we didn't have anything major in the tank yet, the crash we had from Idaho had about $600 in stock that we lost, this time it will be maybe $100 just so disheartening. We have decided to get a 5 stage canister filter to add along with the refuge and will use some media constantly and others only at times we do something that could cause issues like this again. Expensive hobby but this will be a very steep learning curve that I know I will not make the same mistake again.
Hi,

Is it possible for the little darling to have put something into the tank? Most tanks are tall, but kids are climbers. I ask because I had my grandson put a weenie, bun with catsup and all, into my tank once... after that he did stuff to the tank it seemed every time I had my back turned. He even got into the test kit once (very dangerous for a child to get hold of) and he also destroyed my skimmer, he took the top off the cup...to this day I don't know what he did with it. He saw me put food in the tank, so I guess he believed he should be allowed to as well.
 

pegasus

Well-Known Member
I just realized that you said the silicone cured for 12 hours. You should always let silicone cure for 24-48 hours before use. As silicone cures, it releases acetic acid vapors, which probably isn't the best thing to have mixing with the water in the tank. Naturally, I assume you used 100% RTV "aquarium safe" silicone (printed on the front label). I'm still leaning towards hydrogen sulfide, but un-cured silicone could have contributed as well...
 

Moonrize

New Member
He wouldn't of been able to put anything in it at the moment as the child lock has been on there for about 2 weeks, the sump is in the stand so without the child lock I knew I would end up with all sorts in there =P. With the silicone i put in 7 baffles, 5 I did the day before so had plenty of time to cure then the last 2 (they were holding the sand in the broken tank) I put in about 9am and then filled the tank about 6pm so I guess it had less time to cure, the house was pretty warm as we were in the middle of a heat wave and they were pretty well set but that was my other concern that I had put them in too early, they had a small amount of silicone on them compared to the the other baffles, the silicone was aquarium safe and I have used the exact same before. Possibly a combination of 2 costly mistakes. As to a quarantine tank I have always wanted to but have not had the ability to set up a second tank. I think I may though after reading up on the conister filter I would guess I could set a simple tank up with one of them, fill with water from the tank and that should hopefully work for a quarantine? like maybe a even a 10 gallon
 

lmforbis

Well-Known Member
that would work. I'd use a hang on the back filter instead of a canister. Put a few pieces of PVC pipe in the tank for the fish to hide in. Be sure to watch the ammonia. I like to keep SeaChem Prime on hand to detoxify the ammonia just in case I need it
 

pegasus

Well-Known Member
It doesn't take much to set up a QT. A small tank with a small heater and some form of filtration/circulation is basically all you need. Any light will do, and you don't have to worry about sand or rocks, either. You don't want anything porous in the tank in case you have to use medicine... especially copper. A small tank makes it easy to do water changes to keep everything within tolerable levels, too. It's just a temporary "holding tank", so it doesn't have to elaborate. I use a Penguin 400, with a pair of filter cartridges, which is nothing more than floss and carbon. As Imforbis mentioned, you need to be sure to watch the ammonia. Since there (normally) isn't a biological filtration system in this tank, ammonia is the only compound you'll have to worry about. You can treat ammonia chemically, or do water changes every couple of days or so, or do both, depending on how many fish are in the tank (shouldn't be many at a time, since you should always stock your tank s-l-o-w-l-y), and the size of the fish. Once the fish have been move to the DT, the QT can be cleaned up and stored until you're ready for a new fish or two...
 

ClaptonsGhost

Active Member
One thing I am wondering is I need to go into town tomorrow (I live very rural) and I am thinking I might pick up a little chromis or something and introduce it as I cannot test for anything else but that would be the best way I can think to make sure the water is cleared up now.
A Chromis won't tell you anything. Although my tank is running so smoothly now it's sickening, those who know me remember the catastrophe's I've had with my tank before. On two occasions my tank got wiped, but my chromis, all six of them, survived like nothing ever happened. My tank will be up one year next month and they're all doing great. So I wouldn't go by a chromis to determine how safe your tank is.
 

Kristin1234

Active Member
Oh man. That sucks. Sorry about your losses. Hope you get it under control before your new arrivals!

I would setup a qt to be safe.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Everyone seems to be focused on hydrogen sulfide as the culprit, and it might be. But I notice that you have ammonia present in the water. My cardinal rule of thumb is the only acceptable level of ammonia is an undetectable level. I would add Amquel+ to the water to detoxify the ammonia - this stuff has helped me (and, of course, my fish) out of many disasters. Good luck!
 

Moonrize

New Member
I actually don't add anything to my tanks except trace minerals but the ammonia I am sure is from the at least 2 shrimp that I was not able to find as they are under rock work somewhere but I am sure the cleanup crew will get to them, also I pulled out as many of the snails I could find that died but sure again some might be in under rock work. I am pretty sure it is the sulfate as the more I read up the more it makes sense, especially as some creatures have a higher tolerance, seems like those that mess about in sand beds have the tolerance and would explain why my hermies all did fine, my snails in the sand bed did fine and my engineer goby is still alive, the exception is my decorator crab who is still good. I lost the clown and scooter and I also noticed some of my macro algae that had just started growing had a lot of die off, think it's a red dragon or similar that was just getting established. I only just saw your post Ghost but I did pick up a Chromis yesterday and drip acclimatized him very slowly over night and he is still surviving, after what you said not sure how much that is telling me but hoping for the best. Tested last night and everything is at 0 with the exception of ammonia being around .25. Have changed about 60 gallons of water out, 30 gallons with the first change and then a few 10-15 gallon changes. Have more water mixing up so will change out another 15 or so throughout today and tomorrow, I don't want to change out too much and get rid of beneficial bacteria that will clean the tank up.

I drip acclimatize all my new inhabitants as I have a back up pump on my siphon over flow that constantly runs sucking any air out the over flow along with water so I switch its outlet to an air splitter instead of the tank then split that off to some jars I have with a hole for pipe in and a hole with air tubing pipe out glued into place, the out pipe then goes to a waste container, this way I can regulate the drips in and the water over flows out and gets disposed of, has worked really well for the last guys.

Thx for all the condolences, I am just glad that by posting someone was able to give me links to what it probably was, I thought it might be the sand bed but wasn't sure what it was that gets released. We WILL be investing in a canister filter, even if most the trays are only filled when we do something major like a rock clean, stir up the sand somewhere, introduce something new or have to do anything unusal. Oh also I am going to look into more sand cleaners in my clean up crew and hopefully limit the chances of this happening in the future.
 

pegasus

Well-Known Member
You'll have ammonia until all the die-off has decayed or gets disposed of. I'm surprised you haven't seen a slight spike in nitrite, as it follows the ammonia stage in the nitrogen cycle. I suppose the water changes could be suppressing it, and that's okay. The sooner you can get the water cleared up, the better. Yeah, it would have been best to hold off on putting anything else in the tank until everything is back to normal. My theory is that disturbing the sand in the refugium released hydrogen sulfide. Critters died and started decaying, which created ammonia. The spike in ammonia caused the tank to cycle, or at least "mini" cycle, which means the biological filtration system got thrown out of balance. It takes awhile for things to stabilize, so don't rush things. It's only been a few days, but the decay should be winding down, which should mean a reduction in ammonia production. Please keep us posted on how things work out.
 
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