An Easy and Cheap Way to Cure Ich (or ick) - My Adventure with 'Ich-Attack' by Kordon

[ntracy]

Well, being a newbie at this stuff, I was too impatient and started adding too much fish too soon. I believed the gimmick that my tank could cycle overnight with this miracle elixir they call "Bio-Spira"... and the truth is that it shortened my cycle, but I wasn't out of the woods before I started throwing livestock in there. Now I'm having all kinds of problems... the worst being a sudden outbreak of ICH on my hippo tang and black percula... crap.
Take it from a man who learned the hard way... this is a hobby for patient people. You'll blow a lot more money if you rush things (dead fish, ich treatments, Bio-spira) and you'll end up with a thrown together tank, riddled with problems which could take you months to iron out. You're creating one of the most perfectly balanced environments in the world. Only God can do this in one week... for us mortals, it takes a bit longer.
Okay, enough lecturing... down to business.
As I said earlier, I found out tonight that I have an outbreak of ich. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't have the hundreds of dollars it will take to get a quarantine tank set up, with it's own filtration and cured live rock. I need something simpler. Something that works with what I have now and doesn't require me to turn my house into a fish hospital. I know there are others out there in the same boat.
The first thing I did: I went onto SWF forums and spent a solid 2 hours worth of research on ich. Everything ich. The treatment options to the success stories to the failure stories. Everyone recommends building a fish hospital. I don't doubt that it is the best way, but NOT the affordable way. I've heard of ich treatment chemicals that use copper. There are a lot of side effects to using copper... it's a terrible thing to add to your tank, and you may as well throw your tank out if you put anything with copper in there. I've heard of chemicals that DO treat ich, but also turn your tank into a swamp... providing a perfect breeding ground for all kinds of algae.
But I think I may have found the answer...
ICH-ATTACK by Kordon
Here's the website for this product:
http://www.*****.htm
It's 100% organic - no copper and no harmful chemicals that can kill your corals - completely reef safe. Also, I've called all three of my local fish stores (or LFS's for you noob's) and they all use this product continually for some of their display tanks. It came highly recommended from all of them.
So I'm going to try it.
I've got a 34 Gallon Red Sea Max, and a 14 Gallon BioCube. I intend to treat both of them since I have exchanged live rock and fish between the two in the past.
The directions:
Remove carbon filtration from your tank.
Use 5 ml per 10 gallons of water.
Treat tank once a day for 1-2 weeks
Supposedly the ich will be gone by one week, but they recommend 2 weeks to be sure.
Again, totally reef safe, don't change anything about your tank except for the removal of the carbon.
Another great thing to do is get some cleaner shrimp (or fire shrimp if you can afford them). They love eating bacteria off the fish and can really help things along in keeping a cleaner tank. Not to metnion you'll have them a lot longer than it takes to cure the ich. Also, DO NOT GET THE BIGGEST CLEANER SHRIMP YOU CAN FIND!!! Sometimes the biggest one is not always the best deal. I got a cleaner shrimp and wanted the biggest one, but he hasn't done anything in my tank, primarily because a lot of the fish are smaller than him. Get small cleaner shrimps. They will work the hardest, and the fish will feel more comfortable utilizing their talents if they don't feel as threatened by the size.
Here's my tally for tonight:
1 Large bottle of Ich-Attack - $15
1 Small cleaner shrimp - $18
1 Small Fire Shrimp - $30.
Total with tax was around $70. A heck of a lot cheaper than a QT tank and the whole lot.
So I'll give it a try and keep you posted (no pun intended).
Thanks,
Nick
P.S. below are some pics of my Hippo, clown, the tank, and of course my two new comrades in this battle - the two shrimp. You can see that I have plenty of corals. Yes I am taking a bit of a risk here.

 

[al mc]

I do hope your plan works for you. The word 'cure' assocaited with this product may be a bit strong. You may see a reduction in the number of visible organisms or a cessation of symptoms, but i am skeptical about a 'cure'. Please do keep us posted. This thread may be moved to the 'disease' section by one of the mods. So if it leaves the 'new hobbyist' section look for it there.

 

[bpro32]

best of luck to you

 

[bioneck47]

Hey ntracy, I hate to be negative or pestamistic, but I've tried ich attack 4 times with absolutely no results. I really think that it is a waste of time and money. I also lost a clam that I had for a while and I'm 99% sure that ich attack was the culprit. I followed the recommended dosages to the T. I know plenty of other people say the same thing. I really hope you have better luck with it than I did.
Also, setting up a hospital/quarantine tank is actually very easy and suprisingly inexpensive for the size that you need. I know I spent over twice more money on ich attack than I did on setting up a 35 gal HT.Maybe you can check in your local classified adds, that's were I found mine for dirt cheap. Either way you go, good luck!

 

[ntracy]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2651393
I do hope your plan works for you. The word 'cure' assocaited with this product may be a bit strong. You may see a reduction in the number of visible organisms or a cessation of symptoms, but i am skeptical about a 'cure'. Please do keep us posted. This thread may be moved to the 'disease' section by one of the mods. So if it leaves the 'new hobbyist' section look for it there.
Well here's hoping for the best then! The good news is that the tang doesn't have it that bad, and the clown is in the really early stages. I figured an in-tank treatment was best because ich is a floating disease right? even if I take the fish out, there's still ich in the tank. And if I qt'd the infected ones, it doesn't change that I'll have to wait for the ich to die off in the display tank.... right?

 

[dkfloyd]

I don't know why you would think setting up a hospital/quarantine tank would be so (much more) expensive. Its not! You don't put live rock in the qt, it wont survive in hypo anyway. When I had to set up mine, I got a plain ole aquarium with a hob filter unit, a piece of pvc piping and used a couple of cups of sand from my dt and some water to help get it started.
The total cost might have been $35.00.
You wont ever catch me putting any kind of chemicals in my dt. I wont take the risk. I will however, put things in my qt to start off with.

 

[kellenr]

I'm guessing you're a Sales Rep here for Ich-Attack. Am I getting warm here?

Anyway though, please do update this thread on your success/failure with the product. I too am not a huge fan of QT's even though I know it's probably the best most efficient way. I don't live in a pet store and don't want a bunch of running tanks around my house ready to whisk away fish into.
I too had an Ich outbreak about a month ago and used a product called 'Kick-Ich'. It's one of the only true 'reef friendly' products and kills all the free-swimming ich in the tank. So when the Ich falls off the fish it's killed right away thus preventing re-infestation. You just have to wait it out a week or so until all the Ich goes thru its cycle and falls-off then it will be killed. Afer awhile all the Ich will fall off and nothing new is there to go back. I'm guessing this is very similar to your product, probably attacks free-swimming Ich.
Do work son.

 

[michaeltx]

Originally Posted by dkfloyd
http:///forum/post/2651535
I don't know why you would think setting up a hospital/quarantine tank would be so (much more) expensive. Its not! You don't put live rock in the qt, it wont survive in hypo anyway. When I had to set up mine, I got a plain ole aquarium with a hob filter unit, a piece of pvc piping and used a couple of cups of sand from my dt and some water to help get it started.
The total cost might have been $35.00.
You wont ever catch me putting any kind of chemicals in my dt. I wont take the risk. I will however, put things in my qt to start off with.

absolutely I would never add a chemical to my DT thats what the QTs are for. anything that can kill ich and invert can and will kill other inverts in the tank. I would never take that chance.
Mike

 

[jints]

Actually QT tanks dont need any live rock. If you put LR in a qt tank the ich can attach to the rocks and wait for a new victim.
Ultimately you are going to do what you feel is right but I just want to throw something at you. A 20 g tank and a HOB filter with a few PVC pieces, a powerhead and a heater is all you need and surprisingly inexpensive. You dont even need lights or a stand either. The HOB filter with biowheel can be used in your display tank for a week to gather up bacteria and then you can use the display tank water to fill up your QT. Transfer the HOB filter to the QT and voila your done. then you can treat the affected fish. If need be you can even use a plastic storage container for a tank. Look into it...or you can do it for future problems

 

[ntracy]

I've got a 95 gallon I'm in the process of setting up. Once that gets going, I'm going to use my 14 gallon biocube as my QT. I just really want to keep things status-quo. If the Ich-Attack doesn't work, I'll clean out the 14 and put all my fish in there for treatment. You guys agree that at the very least this stuff doesn't have copper or other crazy chemicals. If anything, it's so organic that it doesn't do the job.

 

[jints]

Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2651547
I've got a 95 gallon I'm in the process of setting up. Once that gets going, I'm going to use my 14 gallon biocube as my QT. I just really want to keep things status-quo. If the Ich-Attack doesn't work, I'll clean out the 14 and put all my fish in there for treatment. You guys agree that at the very least this stuff doesn't have copper or other crazy chemicals. If anything, it's so organic that it doesn't do the job.
If your in the process of setting up a 90 gallon then I would invest in at least a 20 gallon QT tank. You want to aim for a quarantine tank that is at least 20% of the main display's volume especially if you have tangs or bigger fish....the bigger the QT tank the better. Its stressfull enough if your fish has a disease and to transfer it will give it added stress so it will be a lil more comfy in a proper size qt. Since your setting up a 90 you know this hobby requires patience. Have the patience to get a nice size QT even if you have to save a few months to get it. it will be worth it in the end. You fishies will love you

 

[ntracy]

Originally Posted by dkfloyd
http:///forum/post/2651535
I don't know why you would think setting up a hospital/quarantine tank would be so (much more) expensive. Its not! You don't put live rock in the qt, it wont survive in hypo anyway. When I had to set up mine, I got a plain ole aquarium with a hob filter unit, a piece of pvc piping and used a couple of cups of sand from my dt and some water to help get it started.
The total cost might have been $35.00.
You wont ever catch me putting any kind of chemicals in my dt. I wont take the risk. I will however, put things in my qt to start off with.
Thanks for sharing an alternative. Honestly, I have no problem with the idea of setting up a QT. If I could do it, I honestly would. The problem for me is time and money. It's going to take time to get the QT going (need to go out and get all the equipment). It's going to take time to get the QT cycled once I have everything I need (minimum 1 week). It also takes money to maintain... although very little money. Keep in mind that i have a 34 gallon tank... I'm not a full-throttle hobbyist yet.
if I had the QT already set up, I'd be an idiot not to use it... but ich spreads fast... and if I'm going to wait a week to set-up and "cycle" a QT, then by the time it's ready to use, my fish could be in a much worse situation than they were a week ago... I could find myself deeper in the hole than i had planned.
Here's what I like. The bottle of Ich-Attack was $15 and I can treat the fish tonight. If I can get a QT started, and treat the fish with it tonight, all on the same budget (which is $15), then I'll agree that it's a viable alternative for my situation.

 

[jints]

Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2651553
It's going to take time to get the QT going (need to go out and get all the equipment). It's going to take time to get the QT cycled.
I outlined a better plan for your qt that doesnt require it to cycle. Refer to my previous post.

 

[jints]

here you go :
The HOB filter with biowheel can be used in your display tank for a week to gather up bacteria and then you can use the display tank water to fill up your QT. Transfer the HOB filter to the QT and voila your done.

 

[ntracy]

Originally Posted by Jints
http:///forum/post/2651552
If your in the process of setting up a 90 gallon then I would invest in at least a 20 gallon QT tank. You want to aim for a quarantine tank that is at least 20% of the main display's volume especially if you have tangs or bigger fish....the bigger the QT tank the better. Its stressfull enough if your fish has a disease and to transfer it will give it added stress so it will be a lil more comfy in a proper size qt. Since your setting up a 90 you know this hobby requires patience. Have the patience to get a nice size QT even if you have to save a few months to get it. it will be worth it in the end. You fishies will love you

This is true. I've been debating about whether or not to sell the 14gal to a friend who wants to get into the hobby. Maybe that's the better alternative.
I'm trying to think of a way to integrate a QT into my 90gal. I have plans for a refugium, but maybe I could find a way to get an additional QT in there, with an on-off valve to the rest of my tank... keep the QT in the loop when it's not in use so it's perfectly cycled exactly like the DT, and when I need to use it, shut the valve, cutting it off from the rest of the tank, but still give it it's own independent filtration (HOB/etc), also always on. Treat the fish and when it gets better, put the fish back into the Display tank. Clean out the QT, reinstall the QT. it could double as a water change when I use it.

 

[jints]

Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2651560
I'm trying to think of a way to integrate a QT into my 90gal. I have plans for a refugium, but maybe I could find a way to get an additional QT in there, with an on-off valve to the rest of my tank... keep the QT in the loop when it's not in use so it's perfectly cycled exactly like the DT, and when I need to use it, shut the valve, cutting it off from the rest of the tank, but still give it it's own independent filtration (HOB/etc), also always on. Treat the fish and when it gets better, put the fish back into the Display tank. Clean out the QT, reinstall the QT. it could double as a water change when I use it.
That wont work because if you have a parasite and depending on what stage its at ...it might be free floating so cutting off your refugium will not solve the problem.
If you get a QT tank you dont even need to set it up. Put it in a closet until you need it. you can keep the biowheel and pad filter in your sump/Display tank until you need to use the QT. Then simply set up your QT, use display tank water, Pull out pad filter and biowheel from DT and your QT tank is ready for the affected fish to treat. When the fish is good to go. Then you can break down the QT again and put it away. Sterilize the filter and biowheel and put it back into your DT in case of another outbreak. Its a win win situation!!
EDIT
On top of that when you reconnect your refugium to the DT the medication for the affected fish will now be in your DT and cause deaths to inverts and or fish and live rock will die I believe.

 

[ntracy]

Good news! I checked the Hippo Tang this morning and he's already looking a little better. the white dots of ich are getting smaller and harder to see. Everyone else in the tank is doing well as far as I can tell - including the corals. None of them are disintegrating or deflating. It's too early to tell, but we're good for now.
The 14gal biocube is a different story. I had a damsel, two clowns, and a baby hippo tang in there. one of the clowns died (but he was already looking sketchy - looks like he had that "clown disease" that turns him white), and I can't find the baby hippo tang. I'll do a proper search when I get home.

 

[bioneck47]

Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2651792
The 14gal biocube is a different story. I had a damsel, two clowns, and a baby hippo tang in there. one of the clowns died (but he was already looking sketchy - looks like he had that "clown disease" that turns him white), and I can't find the baby hippo tang. I'll do a proper search when I get home.
Wow! a blue hippo in a 14gal. This may be your problem right there. Baby or not a 14gal tank is not suitable for a blue hippo. I didn't even want to quarantine my less than an inch blue hippo in a 20gal and your keeping yours in a 14.

 

[spiderwoman]

Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2651792
Good news! I checked the Hippo Tang this morning and he's already looking a little better. the white dots of ich are getting smaller and harder to see. Everyone else in the tank is doing well as far as I can tell - including the corals. None of them are disintegrating or deflating. It's too early to tell, but we're good for now.
The 14gal biocube is a different story. I had a damsel, two clowns, and a baby hippo tang in there. one of the clowns died (but he was already looking sketchy - looks like he had that "clown disease" that turns him white), and I can't find the baby hippo tang. I'll do a proper search when I get home.
Your Hippo may look like it's OK, but it just means the parasite has dropped off him to multiply in the sandbed and LR. I'm telling you, you are better off getting a QT setup. You mentioned that you are worried about money. Well, the liquid that you are pouring into the DT is not cheap and you risk losing your clam (not cheap), damaging your LR etc. Then again, these are your tanks, you will only learn once you have tried your way and possibly it not working.

 

[ntracy]

I'll probably continue the treatment for at least a week. As I said in the first post, this is also an experiment with this particular treatment. A part of me wants to see this through just because I want to provide people with options... partially because I don't believe that a QT is the only way. I don't doubt that it is the best way, because I agree with everyone that YES it is the best way... but not the only way. and of all the different tank-wide treatment options, I believe this is the least invasive one.
Also - all three of my LFS's use this stuff all the time, and it's the same place I buy my fish, coral, and anemone. I have a good feeling that this treatment may be nothing new for my livestock
With a QT, i would still need to keep my display tank void of fish for a number of weeks in order for the ich to die off, which means I'll need a larger QT to comfortably house the fish for a longer period of time. I'd rather treat the whole tank and be done with it.
We will see what happens. If stuff dies, then I'm out hundreds of dollars and I will humbly eat my words!