Why are air bubbles bad for a saltwater tank?

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3063585
Bubbles are like a million little light reflectors.... reflecting light back out of your tank. Too many bubbles and you won't have as much light reaching your corals as you would otherwise.
My tanks are fish only with tlive sand and live rock. I will never venture into coral reefs.
 

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3063589
Micro-fine gas bubbles sticking to gills can obstruct respiratory gas exchange.
Once again is this only in saltwaterfish tanks and not fresh water tanks? If so why only on saltwater fish?
 

cranberry

Active Member
I didn't realize this was a freshwater/saltwater discussion. I have zero experience with freshwater anything and have only read about their nutritional composition and how they affect my saltwater fish.
And I'm talking lots of bubbles like I said before. I don't see how it would be different for a fresh vs saltwater fish because the bubbles will stick to the gills, allowing for less surface area for oxygenated water to run through. But again... speculation.
 

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3064501
I didn't realize this was a freshwater/saltwater discussion. I have zero experience with freshwater anything and have only read about their nutritional composition and how they affect my saltwater fish.
And I'm talking lots of bubbles like I said before. I don't see how it would be different for a fresh vs saltwater fish because the bubbles will stick to the gills, allowing for less surface area for oxygenated water to run through. But again... speculation.
Actually it is a saltwater discussion. I was using fresh water fish as a comparison to bubbles entering their gills. I often hear this as an argument not to have bubbles in saltwater tanks. Thus the question on wether the freshwater fish are different than saltwater fish since we do use bubble making devices in freshwater but not in saltwater.
 

cranberry

Active Member
I wouldn't want too many bubbles in either a freshwater or a saltwater tank.
Guess I haven't heard the discussion before.
 

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3064542
I wouldn't want too many bubbles in either a freshwater or a saltwater tank.
Guess I haven't heard the discussion before.
Well I have kept freshwater fish for a long time, and all my tanks have somesort of bubble making device. On of my 55's have two 18" strips that make bubble all along the back side of the tank. I had always wondered why they are not good in saltwater tanks. The only thing I could come up with was what others have mentioned. It would act like a protein skimmer does. Other have mentioned about bubbles getting in their gills. Not sure if this is really a problem or not. I have seen my niger trigger and all the others for that matter, release lots of bubbles from their gills when they are eating. I would imagine that some bubbles would get cought inside their gills. I do believe that this bubble are also released almost instantanously as water passes throug their gills very frequently. Not sure about all that, just my thoughts.
 

cranberry

Active Member
So... lemme see...peeps are saying to not use airstones in a saltwater tank but they do not say that for freshwater. Is that the "arguement"?
The only reason I could see would be the light reflection and corals. The spritz effect they create is a downer for both FW and SW... and absolutely more so with SW
Sorry, I think I missed a few posts... I have a sick doggie and I'm easily distracted.
BUT this is one problem I had with an airstone in "dirty" water. It's the protein skimmer effect. The bubbles attract the dirt, bring it to the surface so that you have surface scum. This then actually hinders gas exchange. This foam can be quite substantial with increased bubbles or increased organics. I have no idea if this happens in FW.
 

ConradNoto

New Member
Why would anyone want bubbles passing through the gills of their fish?
if you want bubbles for aeration ect...put it down below in the sump...BEFORE your bubble trap baffles, then return it back up top.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
My Koran Angelfish loves to play in the bubbles, I don't think an air stone hurts anything.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
My Koran Angelfish loves to play in the bubbles, I don't think an air stone hurts anything.
This is a very old thread... that being said. Bubbles, the tiny ones that air stones create... causes problems for the fish, it affects their gills. However to have an air line without the air stone is fine. The biggest problem with air lines is that it creates salt creep, and salt creep depletes minerals that should have stayed in the water. I keep seahorses, and I have an air line, they also like to play in the bubbles...but no air stone.
 

seecrabrun

Active Member
what about if the airstone is right under the surface, would that still cause the issues?

That said, I woke up this morning to my tank looking like it was a white fog and it turns out it was micro bubbles from my return pump as I had forgotten to turn the ATO back on. I have the pump close to the surface should the overflow fail it won't flood the display, but will burn up the pump. I'd rather replace the pump.
 

reefkeeperZ

Member
ok the bubbles kill fish thing is WAY over rated and over stated. for there to be enough bubbles to kill your fish, first it would have the be a persistent cloud of microbubbles that would make the tank appear milky for an extended period. You would literally have to make your tank unview-able with micro bubbles for this to be a problem. if you tank looks like a glass of milk turn the bubbles back a bit you might harm your fish.

and I quote " If the gas/gill exposure is persistent and the partial pressure of the oxygen remains near 1 atmosphere (instead of 0.2 atmospheres, as in air), the exposed fish’s chances of survival will probably decrease.
Professor Joseph J. Cech, Ph.D.
University of California – Davis Campus
Department of Wildlife, Fish, and Conservation Biology" End quote

Running an air stone, even a limewood airstone in your tank IS NOT GOING TO KILL FISH.

Some life that may be affected in a marine tank by lots of bubbles would be sponges as they are susceptible to air embolisms. and possibly sea stars but I doubt it.

The main reasons not to run air stones in a marine tank are as follows.

1. the oxygen benefit is negligible since the oxygen doesn't really have enough dwell time to absorb into the water (due to salt waters low gas solubility rate), and the turn over rate of water carried to the surface for oxygenation is minimal, a power head is more effective.

2. salt creep.

end of story. this is one of those myths that really irk me. I begin to wonder if any of the people that perpetuate this myth have ever snorkeled a reef with some kicking surf rocking overhead. Bubbles everywhere! and surprisingly the fish arent dying.
 
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pegasus

Well-Known Member
Other than the salt creep issue, I haven't noticed any impact on my livestock. In fact, everything looks extremely healthy in my mixed reef 125. I installed an 18" bubble wand about a year ago when I was treating my DT for cyano. I actually had two of these wands, but removed one a few months ago. I actually used that analogy not long ago, rkz... I asked if anyone had ever seen a reef with whitecaps above? The water is saturated with bubbles... so yes... the argument is null and void. :cool:
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Other than the salt creep issue, I haven't noticed any impact on my livestock. In fact, everything looks extremely healthy in my mixed reef 125. I installed an 18" bubble wand about a year ago when I was treating my DT for cyano. I actually had two of these wands, but removed one a few months ago. I actually used that analogy not long ago, rkz... I asked if anyone had ever seen a reef with whitecaps above? The water is saturated with bubbles... so yes... the argument is null and void. :cool:
I was told by so many people to not use air stones, I just assumed they knew what they were talking about. I know that bubble curtains look really awesome, but the salt creep has to be terrible. I have 3 air lines and no air stones (seahorses do better without power heads) the salt creep is the worst on my moon lights, they are covered over in a day, I have gotten tired of cleaning them off. The regular lighting is a little better (higher up), but still covered in salt creep within a week. I wipe them down, but that film it leaves behind is hard to clear up.

The only time I ever had microbubbles that made the tank look like milk, was when I had that blasted Coralife skimmer, oh how I hated that thing.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Flower, since you actually require bubbles try saran wrap over the lights. It doesn't cut down on light significantly and once a week you can replace it easily.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
use the microwave safe version. It stands up to the heat better.
I never gave the heat a thought, it's a T5HO and doesn't give off much heat, but more then an LED unit would... I wouldn't cover the vents...I have that cling stuff, so I guess I will have to head to the grocery store to get some made to take heat.
 

pegasus

Well-Known Member
I was told by so many people to not use air stones, I just assumed they knew what they were talking about. I know that bubble curtains look really awesome, but the salt creep has to be terrible. I have 3 air lines and no air stones (seahorses do better without power heads) the salt creep is the worst on my moon lights, they are covered over in a day, I have gotten tired of cleaning them off. The regular lighting is a little better (higher up), but still covered in salt creep within a week. I wipe them down, but that film it leaves behind is hard to clear up.
Here's some food for thought... bubble wands and air stones create fine bubbles, which don't spray large droplets when they pop. My T5's are 6" above the water, and I usually clean the lens about once a month... and it's not really bad even after that long. My worst salt creep comes from the 1" U-tube that sits directly in the path of the bubbles, and the salt tends to make the bend and go down the back of the tank. I suppose I could move one or the other and solve the issue, but it doesn't really bother me too much. Obviously... lol!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Here's some food for thought... bubble wands and air stones create fine bubbles, which don't spray large droplets when they pop. My T5's are 6" above the water, and I usually clean the lens about once a month... and it's not really bad even after that long. My worst salt creep comes from the 1" U-tube that sits directly in the path of the bubbles, and the salt tends to make the bend and go down the back of the tank. I suppose I could move one or the other and solve the issue, but it doesn't really bother me too much. Obviously... lol!
LOL...Cleaning the back of tank is far worse I think then cleaning the light which is easy to reach. Seahorses fill their pouches with air, I don't think an air stone would be a good thing for me, I will stay with what has been the norm when it comes to them. Although the gas bubble disease has absolutely nothing to do with the air lines, air-stone or not, it bothers me and the fish tank is SUPOSSED to have a calming affect. LOL... I don't know very many folks with a SW tank that's calm about them at all, my fish tank is my greatest stressor.
 
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