we need to but aqua corals!

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guess ill plus it also
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i agree completely, but if stores were forced to sell only aqua cultured coral and fish, there would only be gobies, clowns, and cardinals available, and the price for coral would sky rocket for a small frag, and there would also not be any coral colonies being sold.

This is true, but there can't be any harm in creating a demand for captive bred fish of those avaible.
Also I'd find it interesting if aquarists start setting up larger breeding systems for larger fish.
Like I saw on I believe Blue Planet program about Convict Tangs breeding in a big group, what if someone set up a 2000 or 1500 gallon setup and actualy got convict tangs to breed?

I think that would be amazing, it would be alot more expensive of a hobby, but i think after about 5 years it would probably even it self out because there would be so many more people growing coral.

I do agree with your guys though, i hate thinking about how many fish and coral die being destroyed in the wild and being transported.

this isnt corals but it goes right along with buying captive bred livestock.
i found this out when i was researching cyanide fishing:

i always buy captive bred / propagated when available.

it will never happen
The problem with aquaculture and the hobby itself, is people charge what they want, limiting the species available to other keepers. Some sellers have this idea that they will make back what they paid for the coral and then make money off other frags. That’s not what the hobby is about, that’s the business side of the hobby.
Look at zoas, acan, milla and acros, 1” piece for 50 dollars is not helping the hobby, when someone can get the piece for half of what a fellow hobbyist is charging.
Then we go and add a name to the frag and that jacks the price up, and like lemmings we go and pay some crazy price (guilty of it too) Enforcing the fact that fellow hobbyist will pay big money for ½ inch piece of coral cause its named purple what ever.

Seems people forgot that they got into this hobby cause they like it, not to make money off the hobby.

You will hear some people who argue that they should be able to charge what they want for a frag or they should be able to charge money to cover the cost of salt and what ever else. The fact still remains you started this hobby because you wanted to keep coral, not make money. What if coral did not command “big money” and a frags of what ever only got 5 bucks, then what?
If you wanted to make money then open a web site and charge what ever want.
Sitting on a message board and charging “store price” for a frag only insures the destruction of the natural reef, because fellow keepers are not going to pay big money for a ½ frag when a one inch is cheaper on the internet.

very true. if people dont buy this expensive corals the price will come down. i see people paying 10-50 for one polyp of a zao LMAO! i would never do that as you can buy a colony looking almost the same for 60% cheaper.

The problem is people are not going to stop paying big money for a frag, the reason is very natural, its an ego stroke. I have purple this, I have green that, I have coral with some guys name in front and he stamp LE in front and it cost me more then I would like to admit .
So we as hobbyist go ooooh I want that and we find a “fellow hobbyist” who has that coral. The “fellow hobbyist” agree to frag a piece since his purple dumb reefer parts with money acan is getting to big. Well if you want the PDRPWM acan it’s going to cost you big money.
Now you look around the internet and find the PDRPWM acan for 45.00 dollars but the web site sells wild caught. HHHMMM the way a lot of reefers are going to look at it as I save money and I get a frag of PDRPWM acan. They don’t care that the frag is wild caught they got the frag they wanted.

Sure I know some “responsible reefers” will flame me and say I’m wrong, the truth is, out of all the “responsible” reefer for every one there is a hundred not caring if another colony is loped off in fuji if I can get a better deal on a frags.
Again I’m guilty of falling prey to the names at times, but I don’t have tanks full of coral named after some guy.
I have the typical zoas, acan, monti that have some fancy name but I sure as sh*t did not pay near what some web sites wanted for them.
When they get bigger I’ll sell off frags of them for 10 bucks maybe to help other reefers out who want super man monti and sunsets and rest of the silly names some came up with.
As long as hobbyist are willing to pay the money for a name and a seller is charging what the original piece cost to make back what they paid. Wear the badge on your chest proudly, your helping to destroy the natural reefs, and truly don‘t give a lick about it and stop say you do.

i understand. i just cant see paying that much money for a zoa frag because it grows slow and is a rare find. i like colorful things ex: fish coral inverts etc...the mandarian is one of the best looking fish and costs 20 bucks while other ugly fish are rare so they cost hundreds. i guess thats the way the hobby is, im not knocking anyone who spends big money for rare items it just not for me to spend that amount of money for a fish and coral, and beleive me i love this hobby and im very addicted to it. peace to all!

True...to some degree. There are some that pay a high price for to fullfil and ego trip I am sure, but there are alot of genuine people that pay the high price because theya e getting a coral that is remarkable above those that are usually priced at a much lower cost.
Only a zoanthid nut could understand paying $100 for 2 polyps of Darth Maul compared to paying a few dollars for a brown, drab colony of zoanthids.
Take fish for exaple. Would you rather have a $4 Domino damsel in your showcase display or a $70 hippo?
How about yumas? A drab green yuma for $5 or a hot pink for $125? If you want a tank full of brown, dull, drab colors, well, then you can probably get by without paying what most in this hobby pay, but I don't think that is what most want in display tanks.
Not everyone buys the more colorful for a higher price to fullfil an ego trip, and I think those that do are few and far between.

A remarkable coral?????
A coral that was living fine on a reef before we "hobbyist" had to have it. The wholesaler thought wow what a bright color. I'll give it a name and charge an out rages amount and someone one will want it.
If the coral sells I’ll go dig more up. So where is the responsible hobbyist at?
A responsible hobbyist would pay that amount grow it out because they like the coral in his/her tank. As the coral grows out, they frag out 1/2 inch and sell it for a couple of dollars, and spread the aquaculture coral around, saving the natural reef from destruction. Right? that’s what the true hobbyist would do, help try and save the natural coral reef and leave them alone slowing the demand for that coral.
NO, I have to make back my 150 bucks on two frags to make back what I paid. So the cycle continues supplier gets more, sells for a couple of bucks cheaper or more but you get more polyps (however it goes) that’s a better deal and the wild caught continue to sell.

I’ll use you as an example (I’m not attacking you or degrading you but using you more as a point)
You have some very pretty yumas/ric we can all agree on that. You like Yuma/ric right? So you buy them and yeah you pay a pretty penny for them. You seem to have a way of making them split, whether it be by your hands and a knives or natural. What effort did you put into that? A water change? Quality salt? Additives? Equipment?
That’s the cost of the hobby for your own enjoyment of the hobby to succeed. The profit? Is the fact that you are taking a wild creature and allowing it to thrive and multiple in your closed ocean, that’s your reward.
So now you have tanks loaded up and littered with yumas/ric, so instead of sending the fruits of your labor out to other enclosed systems to spread your aquaculture coral and building up the aquaculture Yuma/ric population you put a strangle hold on it by charging what you paid for it or close to it.
Your not helping the population, only justifying the reason why to sell at store price not a couple of bucks to fellow hobbyist to fellow hobbyist.
Im not saying yeah three fancy Yuma/ric for 5 bucks, but when a Yuma goes for 125-150 bucks that’s aquaculture to begin with by a hobbyist, don’t say they are responsible or helping the hobby out. Those hobbyist are part of the problem.

Zooanthids for 50 bucks a polyp again those sellers are part of the problem.
I sold five polyps of glowing orange madness for 10 bucks (price covered the cost of everything I used)They are slow growers and glow crazy under high k and even lower k lights but they finally covered the rock so I don’t need anymore, I was not trying to make back what I paid for them, so I’m and idiot I guess for not trying to make a profit on the zoas?
That’s my point. All my coral as they grow get fragged and put into one of my other tanks and they grow they go into another one of my tanks till finely they need to go into new tank outside my house.
Four tanks of aquaculture then off to new waters to start again. Isn’t that what this hobby is about?
Enjoyment and knowing your labor is growing a new colony some place else.
I beg someone to justify charging big money for a coral frag that is in this hobby for the enjoyment.

So knowing that most people want color, you'll charge them big money for one of your yumas? Cause why?
Did you go fly to where ever, rent a boat,jump in the water and dig the yumas off a rock? Or did you sit at a computer order the yuma let it grow and take care of it and it rewared your efforts with a new one.
See why i'm lost in the big money aquaculture?
Its your hobby. You chose to use quality salt and do the water changes.

Well, you may think I make big money with my rics, I wish I did. And I am sure those that also care for and grow out corals wish the same. It basically pays for salt, electricity and a few other things but after I buy boxes, insulation, gas to take them to the shipper, time from work and not getting paid from it, time I spend each evening checking every ricordia and making sure my water parameters are in order, worrying after shipping them out that they are going to arrive OK, building better systems, tearing them down again and replacing old equipment, I could go on, to provide ricordeas at a good price that I and many others would agree, I do not think that you should bring me into something that you think is not a fair deal within the hobby of SW keeping.
I myself have no problem with high prices for rare fish and corals (rare being those that do not reproduce to overwhelming population) this keeps the majority of those that buy on impulse and do not take proper care of their charges from raping the reefs. The higher the price of wild collected stock=the less that will be collected and purchased.
And you are correct, I chose to do water changes and use quality salt mix. I am guilty of that.
It does sound to me, and forgive me if I am wrong, that you are a bit stressed out about the cost of this hobby. Maybe you should look into FW or maybe something totally different. Hobbys are meant to be fun and enjoyed. ANd if yo uare worried so much to the point of being stressed out then dropping this hobby will help the reefs because there will be one more person not buying.

But if these corals that are now frags in your system were never collected and purchased by someone, you wouldn't have any to trade.