So who's burning the Koran on the 11th? - Page 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

Then how close can they be? Should they not be allowed to be in sight of the building and vise a versa even though Muslims were killed? FDR and WILSON? What are you saying?

FRD and Woodrow Wilson both interred foreigners during the two big wars.

As far as where should they build dunno, I say let the 9-11 families offer a suggestion of what is too close but I would say it's too close when the building suffered damage from one of the jets and it will be seen from the 9-11 memorial site.
 

The guy who currently owns the building is an interesting subject as well. The guy was a waiter and came up with millions to buy the property.

Doesn't he own the land if not then I'm sorry, for some reason I thought he had bought it already. I at first said it was a bad idea but then I realized these people who want to place this building here are not the same as those who attacked the twin towers so we should not be affected by them. Honestly I think our attention should be on the people shooting at our men and women because that's not a matter of they can but it's ill advised instead it's an atrocity against humanity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefraff 

FRD and Woodrow Wilson both interred foreigners during the two big wars.

 

As far as where should they build dunno, I say let the 9-11 families offer a suggestion of what is too close but I would say it's too close when the building suffered damage from one of the jets and it will be seen from the 9-11 memorial site.
 

So people from a country are the same as people from a religion which spans many different countries? I'm not saying what happened was right it was terribly wrong and I strongly disagree but it is being said to prove a point that their isn't some large Islamic sentiment felt by all Muslims.
 

ugghhh I'm not going to budge and either are you so let's just agree to disagree and see what happens. If someone is killed because of it being built there then I will be concerned. Time to watch some foooseball. The question is Vikings or Saints? Hmmmmm.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

So people from a country are the same as people from a religion which spans many different countries? I'm not saying what happened was right it was terribly wrong and i strongly disagree but it is being said to prove a point that their isn't some large Islamic sentiment felt by all Muslims.
 

No, I am just talking about isolating people based on fill in the blank.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

ugghhh I'm not going to budge and either are you so let's just agree to disagree and see what happens. If someone is killed because of it being built there then I will be concerned. Time to watch some foooseball. The question is Vikings or Saints? Hmmmmm.....

We can agree, you're wrong

Saints.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

So people from a country are the same as people from a religion which spans many different countries? I'm not saying what happened was right it was terribly wrong and i strongly disagree but it is being said to prove a point that their isn't some large Islamic sentiment felt by all Muslims.
 

You appear to be far more knowledgeable on this subject than I.  So, I want to ask you what the meaning of the Quran sword verse is that states "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem"

My first impression is that this means believers of Islam, by law, must kill all nonbelievers encountered.  Is this quote out of context or some misinterpretation perhaps?

a bad idea is a bad idea....no matter who's idea it is.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

Doesn't he own the land if not then I'm sorry, for some reason I thought he had bought it already. I at first said it was a bad idea but then I realized these people who want to place this building here are not the same as those who attacked the twin towers so we should not be affected by them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

Uggghhhhh again with this flag burning nonsense and Muslims killed Americans stuff. You are saying that because some killed and some burn flags that all cannot be from a peaceful a religion. If Islam was a religion of hate or whatever why aren't they all running around gunning down and suicide bombing non Muslims? Ummmm because it is a peaceful religion. Some Christians killed citizens of another country in terrorist attacks and some burned other countries flags does this mean that Christianity is a religion of hate? No! Clearly what people do does not reflect a religions teachings of peace.

 

 

Can Muslims be American stdred27? Can they really hold the same core beliefs that our constitution contains?

I'm just pointing out what has been done quite recently in the name of this "peaceful" religion...  That and their seeming incompetence.  You're religion does all this, you'd better be bending over backwards to prove yourself.  Not spitting in our eye...  

well taco, I used to think a muslim could be true to his religion and American.  But I've changed my mind, since our Muslim president has been busy lately...  

I jest I jest.

But seriously, I do think so,  I believe the American ideology of life liberty and pursuit of happiness doesn't just apply to one group of people.  But all people.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

Dearborn is not a designated place I mean a district a "Muslim zone".

 

And I guess no more churches should be built because there are so many already, and anyone who wants to should just shut up and go elsewhere. Plus saying there is 100 Mosques is like saying there are 100 churches go to one. When you may be a Baptist and the nearest Baptist church is an hour away. You do realize there are many many different sects of Islam don't you?

Next time the southern baptists go kill 2000 people we'll talk...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bang Guy 

You appear to be far more knowledgeable on this subject than I.  So, I want to ask you what the meaning of the Quran sword verse is that states "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem"

 

My first impression is that this means believers of Islam, by law, must kill all nonbelievers encountered.  Is this quote out of context or some misinterpretation perhaps?

The Torah and the Bible say the same thing even though it is a contradiction in what God says and what Jesus says, if it isn't a contradiction then it could be said both of these religions intend hate and slaying non believers. Now Pagans aren't Jewish and aren't followers of Christ they were a polytheistic religion and at the time all three books were first mass printed. Pagans were considered a threat to all three religions. By the way Allah and the Jewish peoples' God are the same as the Christian god and the The Old Testament is basically a Torah as is the beginning of the Qoran the only difference is in which prophets are correct. 

And no reefraff we can't. Sorry. I believe you are dangerously close to something that is considered hateful, sorry :(

And I can't decide.... Go Lions hahahaha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stdreb27 

I'm just pointing out what has been done quite recently in the name of this "peaceful" religion...  That and their seeming incompetence.  You're religion does all this, you'd better be bending over backwards to prove yourself.  Not spitting in our eye...  

 

well taco, I used to think a muslim could be true to his religion and American.  But I've changed my mind, since our Muslim president has been busy lately...  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I jest I jest.

 

But seriously, I do think so,  I believe the American ideology of life liberty and pursuit of happiness doesn't just apply to one group of people.  But all people.

 

Next time the southern baptists go kill 2000 people we'll talk...

So you do think Muslims can be "true Americans" and hold the same ideals? Your wording is confusing. You say you do think so but then say such ideas can belong to anyone. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bang Guy 

You appear to be far more knowledgeable on this subject than I.  So, I want to ask you what the meaning of the Quran sword verse is that states "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem"

 

My first impression is that this means believers of Islam, by law, must kill all nonbelievers encountered.  Is this quote out of context or some misinterpretation perhaps? YES

The Koran is a plagiarism of the scriptures,  Mohammad claimed an angel was pressing him to recite and the purpose was to straighten out the misconceptions of the Christians and  the Jews. The Jews did not believe the Messiah had come and this was considered a wrong idea by the angel who pressed Mohammad to recite. The Koran’s claim is that in this area the Jews are wrong.

The Christians think they are free from the Torah law, and the covenant, this again is incorrect according to the angel Mohammad was dealing with.

This is the main function of the Koran. It declares openly that it is NOT to be used without the books that were already written. It is not a stand alone work but must be joined with the Christians books and the books of Moses (Torah). The above concept you are highlighting is in fact a Bible concept, be it the "new"  or "old" testament. God hates idolatry and we are commanded to destroy them where ever we find them. Any god besides the God of the Bible is a false god and is to be destroyed and the followers killed.

Gideon was told to do this and he broke the idols down in the cloak of dark because he was afraid of the town’s people, the next day the town’s folk wanted to kill him. Gideon’s father saved him by saying, that if their god was a god...let him exact revenge for the broken idols. From this we learn that the true God needs no help from us to exact revenge, "vengeance is mine says the Lord."

The Koran is an awesome book, and I believe Mohammad experienced something…The religion called Islam does not properly follow the concept of the Koran, it is a twisted religion, just as the many twisted religions have evolved from the Holy books…Islam is no different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

 

The Torah and the Bible say the same thing even though it is a contradiction in what God says and what Jesus says, if it isn't a contradiction then it could be said both of these religions intend hate and slaying non believers. Now Pagans aren't Jewish and aren't followers of Christ they were a polytheistic religion and at the time all three books were first mass printed. Pagans were considered a threat to all three religions. By the way Allah and the Jewish peoples' God are the same as the Christian god and the The Old Testament is basically a Torah as is the beginning of the Qoran the only difference is in which prophets are correct. 

 

And no reefraff we can't. Sorry. I believe you are dangerously close to something that is considered hateful, sorry :(

 

 

And I can't decide.... Go Lions hahahaha.

Hateful? Where do you come up with that from. 

Whatever the original intent the religion breeds more than it's fair share of violence and I don't just mean the terrorists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

So you do think Muslims can be "true Americans" and hold the same ideals? Your wording is confusing. You say you do think so but then say such ideas can belong to anyone. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

It was a dodge, I think the American ideals are for everyone.  Whether they can assimilate is another question.  The Muslims I've spoken and dealt with.  And I definitely engaged them about their views on religion and politics.  I don't.  Those guys where nuts, and another reason I do not buy the idea that "it is only a handful" argument. 

I was interacting with rich enough to travel all the way to the U.S.A. legally, and take private (as in a company's)  ESL classes that was as expensive as a private university.  And enough money to fund living in a trendy urban area of Houston.  Most had the equivalent of masters and doctorates.  And either funded the classes themselves, or were funded though their work.  One guy was a rocket propulsion scientist from Libya.  But when my friend asked him why does Libya need a rocket propulsion scientist.  He said with a straight face and no clue the implications of saying this to us.  "To destroy Israel. "

And I can tell story after story, that would lead me to believe the "America is evil" thought is much much more prevalent than the PC crowd would lead us to believe. 

It is downright scary...
 

I cannot distinguish what you are saying, it seems like someone edited your post or something, and your spelling is off. By the way you asked him why does "Libya" need rocket propulsion and he answered "to destroy Israel". You did not ask him why do Muslims need rocket propulsion and he did not answer to destroy the Jewish people. Once again this is country on country not religion on religion. If you deny that you should have asked about Muslims not the Libyan Government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flower 

 

 

 

The Koran is a plagiarism of the scriptures,  Mohammad claimed an angel was pressing him to recite and the purpose was to straighten out the misconceptions of the Christians and  the Jews. The Jews did not believe the Messiah had come and this was considered a wrong idea by the angel who pressed Mohammad to recite. The Koran’s claim is that in this area the Jews are wrong.

 

The Christians think they are free from the Torah law, and the covenant, this again is incorrect according to the angel Mohammad was dealing with.

 

This is the main function of the Koran. It declares openly that it is NOT to be used without the books that were already written. It is not a stand alone work but must be joined with the Christians books and the books of Moses (Torah). The above concept you are highlighting is in fact a Bible concept, be it the "new"  or "old" testament. God hates idolatry and we are commanded to destroy them where ever we find them. Any god besides the God of the Bible is a false god and is to be destroyed and the followers killed.

 

Gideon was told to do this and he broke the idols down in the cloak of dark because he was afraid of the town’s people, the next day the town’s folk wanted to kill him. Gideon’s father saved him by saying, that if their god was a god...let him exact revenge for the broken idols. From this we learn that the true God needs no help from us to exact revenge, "vengeance is mine says the Lord."

 

The Koran is an awesome book, and I believe Mohammad experienced something…The religion called Islam does not properly follow the concept of the Koran, it is a twisted religion, just as the many twisted religions have evolved from the Holy books…Islam is no different.

What? I'm pretty familiar with the Bible. Not that I'm trying to call you out, but I'm trying to better educate myself. Could you please give me the chapter/verse that you'll find that line in the Bible?

Thanks Flower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speg 

What? I'm pretty familiar with the Bible. Not that I'm trying to call you out, but I'm trying to better educate myself. Could you please give me the chapter/verse that you'll find that line in the Bible?

 

Thanks Flower.

Shalom,

It is Rosh Hashsanah ans I have to leave and go to the Synagogue, I will be back around 1:00 if you want some more examples. These should do, and not bore folks too much.

It is not an exact quote, the Koran was "recited" to Mohammad, It is common knowledge tht false gods and those who worship them are hated by God and he wants them destroyed. This is why Israel inherited the land...
 

The main one: Deu 12:1 - 4

These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth. 

Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: 

And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. 

I have a list of other such commands..Just in case you think it just means the idols, not the people...1 Sam 15:1 - 2..  Holy War forever...

Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 

Another example: The prophecy of Baalam, that all nations who serve other gods are to be destroyed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flower 

 

Shalom,

 

 

It is Rosh Hashsanah ans I have to leave and go to the Synagogue, I will be back around 1:00 if you want some more examples. These should do, and not bore folks too much.

 

 

It is not an exact quote, the Koran was "recited" to Mohammad, It is common knowledge tht false gods and those who worship them are hated by God and he wants them destroyed. This is why Israel inherited the land...
 

 

The main one: Deu 12:1 - 4

These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth. 

Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: 

And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. 

 

 

I have a list of other such commands..Just in case you think it just means the idols, not the people...1 Sam 15:1 - 2..  Holy War forever...

 

Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 

 

 

Another example: The prophecy of Baalam, that all nations who serve other gods are to be destroyed.

 

 

 

 

That was talking about a specific military action.  You can't honestly extrapolate that to apply to other situations...