Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishtaco 

Book burning shows ignorance and intolerance no matter which flavor of religious lunatic has their fingers on the book of matches. Anybody remember the church that was burning Harry Potter books?

 

Fishtaco

Yep, that was lame too. This preacher seems to me to be old enough to remember the Nazi campfires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by naclfish 

no where did i post all Muslims are animals and enjoy a good flag burning..I only ment if u live in America and enjoy her freedoms you have to accept them. You dont get to threaten death and BS cause you dont like what someones doing.

Burning the flag is a sign of ignorance in most cases. Our Flag is a symbol of an ideal, not the current political party in control or a policy you oppose.

well, here is my take, but this whole only a hand full of extremists thing is getting old.  I mean they had enough people to fight our military for 8 years...  That isn't just a handful.  

 What gets me is the double standard. I was forced to see my religion defiled by the "art" of "PI$$ CHRIST". Not only was I forced to take it, it won awards and was funded at least in part by tax dollars from the National Endowment of the Arts.

No one died, no uproar fro the left. Not much of a peep at the time.

Today, I look at the Koran cross-eyed and the blood will flow.

My Savior gets placed in a vial of urine and it is "art".

I say burn it and let them get a bit of what we Christians have been getting from the left for the last 30 some years.

Don't reward "PI$$ CHRIST", then turn around and say not to burn the Koran in protest.

Then again I guess it is different when you are Muslim.

No double standards, freedom of speech is freedom, go ahead do whatever. Burn the Koran, dunk the Savior in urine. Just be fair on both sides, not this progressive PC junk we have today.

Yeah kind of sad isn't it we spent all of this money and some old shells rigged up to a cell phone seems to stop us in our tracks on most occasions. We clear blocks and houses and we turn around and see people run right back in. Hmmm who else made that mistake before....... Oh yeah the other largest super force in the world... Look how that all turned out. Every war ever fought with modern techniques against gorilla run and gun tactics always fails for the high tech  invading force. I can't think of any conflict where this is not so. It's just how it works and we still can't realize it which should be a deterrent by the way not a problem with a solution.

But that has nothing to do with Koran burnings, which still if you assume Muslim Americans are doing so still doesn't make sense for you to burn a Koran nor does it make sense for you to burn a Koran if people all the way over in another country burn a flag. It pisses me off sure but I'm not going to grab a holy scripture or another nations flag that's plain dumb.

Is burning a Koran because a "cultural center" is possibly going to be built art? Is pi$$ing on a Jesus statue art (which I don't know why it is being done other then an audience says it's art)? Problem with this is it will be far too complicated to talk about because who want's to have the discussion on what is art? No one because you can't answer that other then there is an art world or art world audience that sees it as art. Because art is always changing it's hard for most to understand. All you need to know is there are thories on what is art and that it is just a theory and that more theories will come, but it is universally art as long as there is an audience whilst the artist intends it to be art. Plus there is so much meanings that could come out from that type of piece. Maybe it is about religion being trashed nowadays or maybe you are right it's about the artist making the point (his belief not mine) that Christianity belongs there in that situation (for his reasons given, not mine) either way it is art. Koran burning in protest of Islam or a building of a structure is not art it is protest which is political, and pretty dumb at the same time. I don't think the Jesus thing is a good piece of art though, and I disagree with the message if it is intended to bash Christianity. But I do see it as art for I am part of an art world audience and the creator intended it to be art, it's just really bad stupid art that I can't agree with or have any value in it (though this is trivial). A group of people burning the Koran to oppose something is not creation it is action thus there can be no art world audience nor can it be appreciated as art.

Btw Oscar deuce to say something like that is making it seem like liberals cannot believe in God because somewhere it says that, or that at least it could not be a Christian God. And it is not liberals who reward an art piece, it is a ever changing audience, which is how we can go from the Vatican l to "Pi$$ Jesus" very quickly. I also think it says conservatives can't be artists which is silly.

But I think the nature of this "preacher" is purely to enrage, to draw publicity, to gain his five minutes.  I, 100% believe in the freedom of speech, no question, however, in this case it's like the "Church from Hell" that protested at the military funerals, it was purely meant to inflame and cause anger and upset, it does cause me to think that maybe total freedom of speech may be interpreted by loons very loosely and perhaps should be more clearly defined.

I think the act of burning the Koran is free speech, it's the publicity tied to a wacko that makes it distaceful.  People can burn our flag, the Bible, whatever, but this media blitz with this crazy at the helm is insulting to me.  If he was burning a bra with this same fervor and negativity, I would oppose it.  I don't think it's so much what he's doing but the manner that he is going about it.

Yes, eight years of war does show that there is a huge problem, I know it is a violent region with alot of political unrest.  However, people can react in crazy ways under certain circumstances, especially slanted media.  Our troops are over there to take out the bad and allow the good time to come into it's own.  Everyone over there isn't bad no more than all of them here are bad.

It even happens here at home, look at the LA riots where our own police were instructed to leave the area, does that make all of LA bad and off limits now, no.  Look at the crimes against others that took place during, after, and long since in New Orleans associated with Katrina.  People often act out in situations of unrest, sometimes out of agression and sometimes out of fear.

Yeah I basically agree but let's make it clear for one person who is acting out of fear alone and usually does not behave in that manor there is ten who believe that it's how it should be and thus act on it, usually because someone a long time ago instilled it into them because of their fear. I think it's the old blame it on the foreigners and those who are different tactic that has happened for thousands of years because it simply works while some people take it and ride it to the top of the ladder. I don't think this nutter is going to benefit from it but I do think people who push the story will, now why are they pushing the story? Well in the media they obviously do it so they get better ratings and therefore get more money it's simple. The problem is others will see it and use it to gain power and it works incredibly well, just open up any world history textbook. Now hopefully we have just moved beyond that point, but I think it could happen again. Matter of fact watch it happen if another event happens. Which it will if we give them more recruiting tools like we are now.

I agree about the preacher looking for his 15 minutes. What would be really cool is if on Saturday he would  pull out the Koran in front of all the reporters and just say "I'm not going to disrespect their religion the way their own members do when they kill in god's name". Don't see that happening but you gotta know there will be a sea of reporters there to cover the event.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefraff 

I agree about the preacher looking for his 15 minutes. What would be really cool is if on Saturday he would  pull out the Koran in front of all the reporters and just say "I'm not going to disrespect their religion the way their own members do when they kill in god's name". Don't see that happening but you gotta know there will be a sea of reporters there to cover the event.

Breakthrough and thank you. But you do realize by saying this you are basically saying 9/11 was not carried out by true Muslims instead it was carried out by war mongering perverted zealots who had been corrupted with the idea of the reward of heaven if they acted how they did? Which is not the purpose of putting up the "cultural center" instead it supposed to be there for worship and to promote peace which is really what that whole religion is about just like yours and mine and every other major religion. If Americans realize that then your really causing problems for the whack job terrorists out there cause how are they supposed to prove America wants to crush anything Islam if we are embracing it? I gotta go to bed though I've got class tomorrow.

No cultural center!!!!!!!

So who knows exactly where the cultural center is ? Do you really know where it is planned ? Its not at ground zero. It blocks away from the site. In no way shape or form can you see "GROUND ZERO" from the planned location. So its not looking down on anything .

I suggest you all grow up and act like adults instead of scared little kids. Your blind hatred only shows your own ignorance. I can't believe that in the year 2010 we still have ignorant people like your selves beating the drum of hatred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO 

 

Breakthrough and thank you. But you do realize by saying this you are basically saying 9/11 was not carried out by true Muslims instead it was carried out by war mongering perverted zealots who had been corrupted with the idea of the reward of heaven if they acted how they did? Which is not the purpose of putting up the "cultural center" instead it supposed to be there for worship and to promote peace which is really what that whole religion is about just like yours and mine and every other major religion. If Americans realize that then your really causing problems for the whack job terrorists out there cause how are they supposed to prove America wants to crush anything Islam if we are embracing it? I gotta go to bed though I've got class tomorrow.

Breakthrough? I never did say I support what he is doing, Just that 1) I now understand the motivation and 2) I am sick and tired of the double standard that is applied to Islam as apposed to Christianity or Judaism.

Oh, and the people who did it were Muslims no doubt. The problem is they were "True Muslims". What I found is the deeper you delve into that particular religion. maybe any religion, the easier it is to become radicalized. There are some rather interesting things in the Koran.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot 

So who knows exactly where the cultural center is ? Do you really know where it is planned ? Its not at ground zero. It blocks away from the site. In no way shape or form can you see "GROUND ZERO" from the planned location. So its not looking down on anything .

 

 

I suggest you all grow up and act like adults instead of scared little kids. Your blind hatred only shows your own ignorance. I can't believe that in the year 2010 we still have ignorant people like your selves beating the drum of hatred.

 

Maybe you should look at the actual site before calling others ignorant. It's 600 feet away, Close enough the current building was damaged by debris from one of the jets. Red pin marks the spot

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefraff 

 

 

Breakthrough? I never did say I support what he is doing, Just that 1) I now understand the motivation and 2) I am sick and tired of the double standard that is applied to Islam as apposed to Christianity or Judaism.

 

Oh, and the people who did it were Muslims no doubt. The problem is they were "True Muslims". What I found is the deeper you delve into that particular religion. maybe any religion, the easier it is to become radicalized. There are some rather interesting things in the Koran.
 

I think religion in any form will attract crazies who take things to extremes and bend or twist meanings to suit their particular purposes.

I am highly skeptical of organized religion in any form.  I am spiritual and live my life according to what I have learned to be "right", where that gets me remains to be seen.  I think religion is a private matter, people who throw it out there so spuriously are often those with the most to hide from my experience.

Just looking at Christianity, I have blocked about ten school friends from Facebook because after many years, reconnecting only to find out they had been incarcerated, overdosed, pimped out, charges levied for everything from drugs to accessory to murder (small town, obviously some people don't know how to amuse themselves) are now updating statuses every three minutes about God and how everyone needs to turn their lives over to him.  Enough of the constant barrage of religious dribble.  Especially when you know that they are still doing alot of the same crap just now using religion as a shield.

Predjudices and paranoia from religious group to religious group against each other also goes back to the roots of mankind I'm sure. 

Just like the Catholic priest recently saying that the molestations by the Catholic priests was being blown out of proportion (I'm sure the kids bearing the scars may beg to differ) and that had it been Jewish Rabbis (sp) instead, the matter never would have made headlines.

And let's not forget the Bible thumping Southern Baptists who will look you in the face and tell you that you and your family are going to hell for not being of the "correct" religion and following a false faith if you are not of their faith.  And if you happen to be gay, or accept gays you are not welcome so you are slated for hell by default.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartorl 

 

And let's not forget the Bible thumping Southern Baptists who will look you in the face and tell you that you and your family are going to hell for not being of the "correct" religion and following a false faith if you are not of their faith.  And if you happen to be gay, or accept gays you are not welcome so you are slated for hell by default.

Wait a second here.  Last I checked, any mono-theistic religion is exclusive.  When you get to those eastern religions that go all anyway is the right way... 

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartorl 

I think religion in any form will attract crazies who take things to extremes and bend or twist meanings to suit their particular purposes.

 

I am highly skeptical of organized religion in any form.  I am spiritual and live my life according to what I have learned to be "right", where that gets me remains to be seen.  I think religion is a private matter, people who throw it out there so spuriously are often those with the most to hide from my experience.

 

Just looking at Christianity, I have blocked about ten school friends from Facebook because after many years, reconnecting only to find out they had been incarcerated, overdosed, pimped out, charges levied for everything from drugs to accessory to murder (small town, obviously some people don't know how to amuse themselves) are now updating statuses every three minutes about God and how everyone needs to turn their lives over to him.  Enough of the constant barrage of religious dribble.  Especially when you know that they are still doing alot of the same crap just now using religion as a shield.

 

Predjudices and paranoia from religious group to religious group against each other also goes back to the roots of mankind I'm sure. 

 

Just like the Catholic priest recently saying that the molestations by the Catholic priests was being blown out of proportion (I'm sure the kids bearing the scars may beg to differ) and that had it been Jewish Rabbis (sp) instead, the matter never would have made headlines.

 

And let's not forget the Bible thumping Southern Baptists who will look you in the face and tell you that you and your family are going to hell for not being of the "correct" religion and following a false faith if you are not of their faith.  And if you happen to be gay, or accept gays you are not welcome so you are slated for hell by default.

My .02 and you had to know it was coming...LOL

A Holy BOOK and religion are two different things. There are and will always be idiots, be they Christians, Jews, or Muslims. Burning the Holy scrolls, the Bible or the Koran is an act of pure evil, how dare anyone burn religious writings thinking they can control who reads what, and therefore control what a person believes.

Each of us must stand before God ourselves, let each of us search out and seek the truth to the best of our abilities, the only way to make an educated decision is to have the freedom to read and study whatever books we seek to guide us. If we only read what we agree with and never consider the opposing views or books, we are not in our heart convinced of the "truth" we claim to have found and are afraid to put it to the acid test.

My point was simply that ALL religions have issues and cult like segments. 

Here, where Christianity is the majority, we aren't as threatened by it because we are used to hearing it and seeing it and can choose to observe or tune it out.  In other areas where Muslim or Hindu, or any other religion is primary, they may be threatened and misunderstand Christianity and feel more comfortable with what they know due to conditioning.

People often fear what they don't know and don't understand.

Religion has a long and violent history in our world, I don't think there are any clear cut easy answers.  It's just not black and white.  I think it will be one of the hot button topics for as long as humans are alive.