Repairing TV after lightning strike- Need help!

That 40" tv would make a great conversation piece as a coffee table.  Stick some legs on it and go buy a new TV and a quality sugrge supressor.  Dont chince out on the $10 power strip when you are protecting a $1000 TV.  I would bet that there is more wrong than the power supply.  Crack the TV open and look for brown marks on the circut boards and check the internal fuse.

If the led is dead but the screen energizes it could be the logic side of the power supply or could be you cooked more than one board. I assume you had it unplugged when you pulled it apart, if not unplug it for 30 seconds then plug it back in.

There are board mounted fuses that aren't meant for consumers to replace, you COULD get lucky and find one of those blown.

If all else fails check your insurance policy, it might cover repair costs.

Now, I'm confused (don't mean to high jack), but I have been told that surge protectors won't necessarily protect electronics during a thunderstorm. Can someone point me to quality surge protectors for a computer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemmy 

Now, I'm confused (don't mean to high jack), but I have been told that surge protectors won't necessarily protect electronics during a thunderstorm. Can someone point me to quality surge protectors for a computer?

http://surgeprotectorguide.blogspot.com/

When looking for something to protect expensive equipment you need to look for a known brand and make sure it isn't a surge protector. You need something that is also a filter. A surge protector will likely keep your appliance from turning into a fireball if you take a lightning strike but odds are it will fry the boards. A filter will stand a better chance of clamping the voltage before it can smoke your equipment. The better ones will have a replacement warranty where if their device fails they will pay you to repair your damaged stuff. It can be hard to collect on it but at least you know they produced a product that SHOULD protect your equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefraff 

When looking for something to protect expensive equipment you need to look for a known brand and make sure it isn't a surge protector. You need something that is also a filter. A surge protector will likely keep your appliance from turning into a fireball if you take a lightning strike but odds are it will fry the boards. A filter will stand a better chance of clamping the voltage before it can smoke your equipment. The better ones will have a replacement warranty where if their device fails they will pay you to repair your damaged stuff. It can be hard to collect on it but at least you know they produced a product that SHOULD protect your equipment.

Do you have a link for one of these filter devices that's not a surge protector/suppresor?

Never mind, I think I found some...http://www.staples.com/Tripp-Lite-Premium-Isobar-6-Outlet-3330-Joule-Surge-Protector/product_918006?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Shopping-_-Technology%3ESurge_Protectors-_-918006-ISOBAR6ULTRA&cid=CSE:GoogleBase:Technology:Surge_Protectors:918006:ISOBAR6ULTRA

There will be a fuse on the power supply board inside the TV, but if the TV is doing anything at all, then it's probably not the fuse. 

If it were me, I'd replace the power supply board outright.  They are all proprietary so they will be quite expensive. As others have stated, you won't even know if other boards are bad or not until you've replaced it.  There isn't any effective way to test them with just a multimeter because of the way power-on signaling works, you'd need an oscilloscope to know anything about the supply which I'm doubting you have...

The alternative is to purchase a universal LVDS driver board from the 'bay and rework the interior guts of the TV.  This would be cheaper but gets pretty involved if you want to preserve the original fit and finish of the TV. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemmy 

Now, I'm confused (don't mean to high jack), but I have been told that surge protectors won't necessarily protect electronics during a thunderstorm. Can someone point me to quality surge protectors for a computer?

Whoever told you that is right.  Surge protectors contain devices called Metal Oxide Varistors (MOVs).  MOVs work by short-circuiting when voltage is presented to them that exceeds their breakdown (read: target) voltage.  When the voltage returns to normal levels, they return to normal levels... that's the theoretical operation. 

The truth is that MOVs are teensy little devices, and although they can deal with quite a bit of energy, a solid power surge or lightning hit will literally blow them apart.  Lightning contains a quantity of energy that is difficult to wrap ones head around... at least 1.21gigawatts....(tee hee).  Long story short, a direct application of lightning to a nearby power line or your house will likely blow every piece of electronics you have, no matter what kind of surge protectors you have.  Surge protectors may stop small surges, but whether or not they protect you from lightning depends entirely on the circumstances. 

The best protection from lightning is homeowners insurance. 

For a computer, I'd use a UPS.  All UPSs contain pretty decent surge protection... at least as decent as surge protection gets in the consumer market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSInet 

Whoever told you that is right.  Surge protectors contain devices called Metal Oxide Varistors (MOVs).  MOVs work by short-circuiting when voltage is presented to them that exceeds their breakdown (read: target) voltage.  When the voltage returns to normal levels, they return to normal levels... that's the theoretical operation. 

 

The truth is that MOVs are teensy little devices, and although they can deal with quite a bit of energy, a solid power surge or lightning hit will literally blow them apart.  Lightning contains a quantity of energy that is difficult to wrap ones head around... at least 1.21gigawatts....(tee hee).  Long story short, a direct application of lightning to a nearby power line or your house will likely blow every piece of electronics you have, no matter what kind of surge protectors you have.  Surge protectors may stop small surges, but whether or not they protect you from lightning depends entirely on the circumstances. 

 

The best protection from lightning is homeowners insurance. 

 

For a computer, I'd use a UPS.  All UPSs contain pretty decent surge protection... at least as decent as surge protection gets in the consumer market.

 

Would have to agree here.  Back when I did tower construction in the communications industry they were very strict about ground protection of the antenna, lines and switching equipment.  I don't care how many grounding kits, surge protectors or frequency filters you install.  Seeing pictures of towers taking direct hits from lightning depending on the situation those surge supressors would simply explode, lines and antenna would be fried and typically tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment would still be toast.

SCSInet, hoping you'll maybe stop by some of the recent LED threads on the site and offer your opinoin on harmonic distortion and ways of filtering it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Quills 

 

SCSInet, hoping you'll maybe stop by some of the recent LED threads on the site and offer your opinoin on harmonic distortion and ways of filtering it.

If you'd be so kind as to point me to a thread, I'll have a look.  Last time I checked there are several threads going, and I tend to stay out of them because the way most folks build those things is not the way I'd do it, but there is nothing wrong wtih the methods being used so I just live and let live.  I haven't seen any of the posts you are talking about though so a kick in the right direction would help.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSInet 

If you'd be so kind as to point me to a thread, I'll have a look.  Last time I checked there are several threads going, and I tend to stay out of them because the way most folks build those things is not the way I'd do it, but there is nothing wrong wtih the methods being used so I just live and let live.  I haven't seen any of the posts you are talking about though so a kick in the right direction would help.
 

 

Ofcorse, here's one.  http://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/386777/led-s-are-the-best/40#post_3404064 

Particlular looking for your thoughts in regaurds to running several non linear swithing supplies like the ELN drivers.  And the safety issues that could possibly arise from harmonic distortion when stacking multiple drivers up in a diy rig.

I assume you have an entire A/V system (TV, Surround Sound, DVD, game systems, etc.).  I would spend the extra cash and purchase a good UPS for all of your equipment.  APC is the best known, and even has a $75,000 guaranteed protection coverage for incidents just like this lightning strike.  A 750VA would do the trick.  Best Buy sells one for right at $100.00:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/APC+-+750VA+Battery+Back-Up+System/8540322.p?id=1188559784051&skuId=8540322&st=ups&cp=1&lp=7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemmy 

Now, I'm confused (don't mean to high jack), but I have been told that surge protectors won't necessarily protect electronics during a thunderstorm. Can someone point me to quality surge protectors for a computer?

  Those protectors in surgeprotectorguide.blogspot.com/ do not claim to protect from any destructive surge. Are recommended by people only told how to think. Who do not ask any damning questions.  If those protectors did protection, manufacturer specification numbers were posted that claim protection from each type of surge.  Other protectors that cost tens or 100 times less money will protect even from direct lightning strikes.  But those must not be adjacent to electronics.  And must be close (ie 'less than 10 feet') to the only thing that does protection.

  Take a $4 power strip.  Add some ten cent protector parts.  Sell it for $7 in the supermarket.  Or sell the equivalent circuit  for $50 or $150 under Belkin, APC, Monster or other names.  Those protectors in surgeprotectguide are profit centers.   Effective solutions are provided by other more responsible companies such as General Electric, Square D, Intermatic, ABB, Siemens, or Leviton.  A useful solution from Cutler-Hammer sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.  Is necessary to even protect 'profit center' protectors.

  Now, if a surge damaged that TV, then an electric current had an incoming and an outgoing path.  Fixing the TV involves identifying that path.  For example, if connected to cable, and if cable was installed as required by Federal regulations and electrical code, then the cable is earthed.  Inspection of that cable is critical for determining if cable was the incoming path.  Is it properly earthed outside to the same electrode used by AC electric?  If yes, then cable cannot be an incoming path.  Cable has the best protection possible. Better than any protector can provide.   But cable can be the outgoing path.

  Once a surge is permitted (all but invited) inside, it goes hunting for earth ground via appliances.  An appliance is damaged if that incoming surge finds an outgoing path.  Incoming on AC electric because no 'whole house' protector was earthed.   Outgoing to earth via that cable.  Only then does damage exist.  And the only damaged parts are in that path.

  That is an example of how to find what is damaged. And example of a most common incoming and outgoing electrical path.  Unfortunately, I have no idea how to say more without a schematic for that TV.

  We know surge damage rarely leaves any visual indication.  Tracing the path from an incoming surge to earth ground identifies each damaged suspect.  The incoming surge connected to everything inside.  But only some parts also had an outgoing connection to earth.  So only those parts might be damaged.

  The above example demonstrated that how a coax cable was one possible outgoing path.  Another could be the HDMI port.  Analysis means looking at every possible path (even through other appliances) to earth.  And identifying the incoming path.  Don't forget that protector.  Protectors too close to appliances and too far from earth give a surge even more possible and destructive paths through the TV.

  We know how to avoid surge damage.  Nothing inside the house can avert that damage.  Nothing.  Effective protector always - as in no exception - always makes a short connection to single point earth ground.  Then a surge is not inside hunting for earth destructively via a TV.  Fixing surge damage means identifying that incoming path.  Tracing how that current got to earth.  Remember, a protector adjacent to an appliance can even give that surge more paths to find earth destructively.  Protectors too close to appliances and too far from earth ground have a history of making electronics damage easier.

  Trace the surge path to both fix the TV.  And learn where effective surge protection (even from direct lightning strikes) need be installed.  Meanwhile, learn from the experience.  That would be another post on request.

Quote:

Originally Posted by westom 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemmy 

Now, I'm confused (don't mean to high jack), but I have been told that surge protectors won't necessarily protect electronics during a thunderstorm. Can someone point me to quality surge protectors for a computer?

  Those protectors in surgeprotectorguide.blogspot.com/ do not claim to protect from any destructive surge. Are recommended by people only told how to think. Who do not ask any damning questions.  If those protectors did protection, manufacturer specification numbers were posted that claim protection from each type of surge.  Other protectors that cost tens or 100 times less money will protect even from direct lightning strikes.  But those must not be adjacent to electronics.  And must be close (ie 'less than 10 feet') to the only thing that does protection.

 

  Take a $4 power strip.  Add some ten cent protector parts.  Sell it for $7 in the supermarket.  Or sell the equivalent circuit  for $50 or $150 under Belkin, APC, Monster or other names.  Those protectors in surgeprotectguide are profit centers.   Effective solutions are provided by other more responsible companies such as General Electric, Square D, Intermatic, ABB, Siemens, or Leviton.  A useful solution from Cutler-Hammer sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.  Is necessary to even protect 'profit center' protectors.

 

  Now, if a surge damaged that TV, then an electric current had an incoming and an outgoing path.  Fixing the TV involves identifying that path.  For example, if connected to cable, and if cable was installed as required by Federal regulations and electrical code, then the cable is earthed.  Inspection of that cable is critical for determining if cable was the incoming path.  Is it properly earthed outside to the same electrode used by AC electric?  If yes, then cable cannot be an incoming path.  Cable has the best protection possible. Better than any protector can provide.   But cable can be the outgoing path.

 

  Once a surge is permitted (all but invited) inside, it goes hunting for earth ground via appliances.  An appliance is damaged if that incoming surge finds an outgoing path.  Incoming on AC electric because no 'whole house' protector was earthed.   Outgoing to earth via that cable.  Only then does damage exist.  And the only damaged parts are in that path.

 

  That is an example of how to find what is damaged. And example of a most common incoming and outgoing electrical path.  Unfortunately, I have no idea how to say more without a schematic for that TV.

 

  We know surge damage rarely leaves any visual indication.  Tracing the path from an incoming surge to earth ground identifies each damaged suspect.  The incoming surge connected to everything inside.  But only some parts also had an outgoing connection to earth.  So only those parts might be damaged.

 

  The above example demonstrated that how a coax cable was one possible outgoing path.  Another could be the HDMI port.  Analysis means looking at every possible path (even through other appliances) to earth.  And identifying the incoming path.  Don't forget that protector.  Protectors too close to appliances and too far from earth give a surge even more possible and destructive paths through the TV.

 

  We know how to avoid surge damage.  Nothing inside the house can avert that damage.  Nothing.  Effective protector always - as in no exception - always makes a short connection to single point earth ground.  Then a surge is not inside hunting for earth destructively via a TV.  Fixing surge damage means identifying that incoming path.  Tracing how that current got to earth.  Remember, a protector adjacent to an appliance can even give that surge more paths to find earth destructively.  Protectors too close to appliances and too far from earth ground have a history of making electronics damage easier.

 

  Trace the surge path to both fix the TV.  And learn where effective surge protection (even from direct lightning strikes) need be installed.  Meanwhile, learn from the experience.  That would be another post on request.

 

Lightning strikes can only damage electrical equipment if that equipment is connected to some external medium.  The only medium a TV would be connected to are 1) AC Outlet, 2) Coax cable (if using a Cable TV provider that allows you to use the internal TV tuner to receive their signal), or 3) External cable or other provider box, which in turn the TV is connected via Coax or an HDMI cable (for newer technology sets).  APC makes a variety of protection devices that will inhibit or suppress direct lightning strikes.  I have a UPS that has standard AC plugs AND Coax connections so that I can run my TV set-top box through that unit to protect either medium from getting hit.  If you run the Coax from outside through these types of surge suppressors, you don't have to worry about the connections between your TV and your Cable Provider Box, since that box should also be plugged into the supprssor, which protects any cable connections coming out of it.

I've been using APC products for years, and have had a direct lightning strike on my house.  It completely fried my UPS's, but none of the devices plugged into those units were harmed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemmy 

Now, I'm confused (don't mean to high jack), but I have been told that surge protectors won't necessarily protect electronics during a thunderstorm. Can someone point me to quality surge protectors for a computer?

As stated already, they won't do much for a direct lightning strike.  I don't care what people will tell you.  Some of the higher end protectors, like Monster claim to.  And I've seen it suck up some pretty significant surges.  But you just have to cross your fingers and pray.  Also, those promises of protection, and reimbursement, well, good luck...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSInet 

Whoever told you that is right.  Surge protectors contain devices called Metal Oxide Varistors (MOVs).  MOVs work by short-circuiting when voltage is presented to them that exceeds their breakdown (read: target) voltage.  When the voltage returns to normal levels, they return to normal levels... that's the theoretical operation. 

 

The truth is that MOVs are teensy little devices, and although they can deal with quite a bit of energy, a solid power surge or lightning hit will literally blow them apart.  Lightning contains a quantity of energy that is difficult to wrap ones head around... at least 1.21gigawatts....(tee hee).  Long story short, a direct application of lightning to a nearby power line or your house will likely blow every piece of electronics you have, no matter what kind of surge protectors you have.  Surge protectors may stop small surges, but whether or not they protect you from lightning depends entirely on the circumstances. 

 

The best protection from lightning is homeowners insurance. 

 

For a computer, I'd use a UPS.  All UPSs contain pretty decent surge protection... at least as decent as surge protection gets in the consumer market.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bionicarm 

I've been using APC products for years, and have had a direct lightning strike on my house.  It completely fried my UPS's, but none of the devices plugged into those units were harmed.

They make some nice stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bionicarm 

  APC makes a variety of protection devices that will inhibit or suppress direct lightning strikes.  ...  If you run the Coax from outside through these types of surge suppressors, you don't have to worry about the connections between your TV and your Cable Provider Box, since that box should also be plugged into the supprssor, which protects any cable connections coming out of it.

  Nothing will inhibit or suppress direct lightning strikes.  Those claims are found only in advertising, hearsay, and other popular sources of junk science.  Go to informed sources.  People who actually do this research such as the NIST (US government research agency):

> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.  What these protective

> devices do is neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground,

> where it can do no harm.  

  Take a $4 power strip.  Add some ten cent protector parts.  Hype it with an expensive looking case.  Sell it for obscene profits at $50 or $150.  Then claim in advertising that it will inhibit or suppress lightning.  Lying is legal in advertising especially when it is subjective.  Where are the numbers?  Why does APC never provide numbers that claim protection? Why do their products have odious profit margins?  Because the NIST defines that APC:

> A very important point to keep in mind is that your  surge protector will work by

> diverting the surges to ground.  The best surge protection in the world can
> be useless if grounding is not done properly.

Where is the 'less than 10 foot' connection from APC to earth?  Why does APC never discuss that earthing?   NIST says why.  "Useless".  It is a profit center; not protection. If it did protection, then you can post APC spec numbers that state that protection.

  Meanwhile, how many furnaces, dishwashers, smoke detectors, bathroom GFCIs, etc did you replace with each surge.  Are all those also protected by APC products?  Hardly.  So you must have invisible protectors on them?  After all, for your logic to work, then those other unprotected devices also have some protectors.  Why do unprotected appliances not fail?

    All appliances already contain robust protection.  With or without the APC, the appliance either protected itself.  Or internal protection was overwhelmed because it was the better connection to earth.  Only way your observations prove protection is for the other 100 appliances, not connected to an APC, be destroyed.

  Surges are an electrical path from the cloud to earth.  Once a surge is permitted inside, then nothing will stop that hunt.  Nothing inhibits or suppresses that surge.  Protection means that current connects to earth harmlessly outside.  Or a surge current hunts destructively for earth inside.  'Whole house' is how protection is done in any facility that has damage to nothing - not even to the dimmer switches.  The 'whole house' protector makes an 'as short as' possible connection to what a surge wants.  Earth.   Then nothing inside is at risk.  That protector costs about $1 per protected appliance.

  Once that surge is inside, the OP can trace an electrical path through his TV.  To fix the few parts that are actually damaged.  And to learn what carried a surge destructively inside the house.  To learn how to avert future damage to all appliances.  Either a surge is earthed harmlessly outside.  Or earthed destructively via appliances.  APC does not make any numeric claims for protection.  APC power strips have, in some rare cases, even made damage easier.  The APC power strip is the same protector circuit (has same numeric specs) also selling for $7 in a supermarket.  OP also had an equivalent product.  And still suffered damage.  

  That power strip would never be permitted inside a telco switching center.  COs suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm.  A $multi-million computer remains undamaged.  Because they earth surges using 'whole house' type protectors.  Do not use products from APC, Monster, or other (what the NIST calls) "useless" protectors.  That type protector is banned.

  COs do not have surge currents inside electronics because every protector is so close to earth and up to 50 meters distant from electronics.  One inside, a surge current from AC mains may have found earth destructively via the TV’s HDMI port or coax cable.

 Quote:

Originally Posted by stdreb27 

As stated already, they won't do much for a direct lightning strike.  I don't care what people will tell you.  Some of the higher end protectors, like Monster claim to.  And I've seen it suck up some pretty significant surges. 

 Where are spec numbers for the joules it absorbs?  Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules.  How many joules did that Monster absorb?

   Monster has a long history of identifying scams.  Then selling similar products for obscenely high profits.  For example, all speaker wire has polarity.  If you connect a speaker end to the amp, and the amp end to a speaker, then sound is perverted.  And so Monster sold $7 speaker wire carefully marked with the amp and speaker ends ... for $70.  Many consumers said they could hear a difference.  If Monster is selling it, then suspect the worst also from those other manufacturers.  The OP had a protector similar to the Monster.  And suffered damage.  Do you recommend he spend tens of times more money for the equivalent product from Monster?  Or obtain what has been used and is well proven for over 100 years.

  I have never seen an adjacent protector do effective protection.  But I have seen them earth surges destructively through a network of powered off computers.  We engineers must learn why damage happens to avert it.   Power strips literally earthed surges through two adjacent computers.  We replaced every surge damaged semiconductor to make all computers working.  Traced the path of that lightning strike to earth.  Those power strip protectors bypassed superior protection inside two computers.  Earthed that surge through other powered off computers. Did protection as even Monster said it would do.  But then we don't listen to hearsay.  Read what the manufacturer spec numbers say.  Learn how surges do damage.  The science is well defined for over 100 years.

  How many joules does that Monster claim to absorb?  How does the Monster make destructive surges (hundreds of thousands of joules) just disappear?  Honest recommendations come with facts and numbers.  Where are those Monster numbers that claim protection from each type of surge?   Many type of surges exist.  Where are spec numbers that claim to absorb hundreds of thousands of joules?

Quote:

Originally Posted by westom 

 

 

  Take a $4 power strip.  Add some ten cent protector parts.  Sell it for $7 in the supermarket.  Or sell the equivalent circuit  for $50 or $150 under Belkin, APC, Monster or other names.  Those protectors in surgeprotectguide are profit centers.   Effective solutions are provided by other more responsible companies such as General Electric, Square D, Intermatic, ABB, Siemens, or Leviton.  A useful solution from Cutler-Hammer sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.  Is necessary to even protect 'profit center' protectors.

 

 

So what are some of these effective solutions so we can look into them since surge suppresion/diversion doesn't work. 

Krista:  I think it's fairly safe to say that if your apartment gets hit by lightning you're pretty much screwed.  When we were in our apartment I think it cost us about $35 a month for renters insurance for about $30-$40k worth of coverage.  It's worth it, especially in apartments incase of fire, theft or an act of God.  Pay your detuctable, get yourself some new stuff.