New to the Saltwater Fish only hobby. Not having good luck...

Hello everyone. I'm a hobbyist that has had freshwater for over 30 years now. I recently sold many of my fish tanks (13 - 75 gallon tanks) and switched to saltwater. My plan was to liquidate all my freshwater tanks and purchase a saltwater setup. Now I have done so. Sold all my tanks and used that money to buy a used 120 gallon tank with everything. Meaning the tank, stand, lights, protein skimmer, Wet dry, and the tank came with 150+ of Live Rock. Kept the live rock alive using a garbage can with heater and power head till the tank was plumbed and piped.

I set up the tank and had it running for a week. My water parameters were perfect. PH at 8.3, Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate at zero. Temp at 78 and salinity at 1.024.

I went out to purchase my first fish and this is when my problems started… I purchased a puffer (needle nose to be exact). Reason is that my wife liked them so much and he was cheap. After a 1hr, slow drip acclimation he was introduced to my tank. He hid right away and I never saw him in the tank. Only on occasion I would see him hiding in the live rock. He never ate and after 3 days, I found him dead. I immediately checked the parameters again, and they were perfect.

I then when out to buy another fish. This time I went with a Huma Trigger. He's doing great to this day. Love this little guy (3-inch). This was roughly 3 weeks ago.

To keep him company, A few days later I went and picked up a Blue Jaw trigger. 1hr acclimation with a slow drip. The Huma and him had a minor scrap but nothing serious. I have a wall of Live rock with all kinds of hiding spots. The then left each other alone. He did the same thing as the puffer I described earlier and hid and never ate. Soon after 2 days or so, I found him dead and removed him immediately. No bite marks and looked fine physically. Just faded and dead…Checked my parameters and again, my parameters are perfect.  Huma doing great and eating and begging for food as usual…

Last week, I purchased my dream fish. A clown trigger. He's double the size of the Huma, roughly 6 inches. Doing great, eating well and loving this fish. I planned on getting one when I was looking for a tank. I now have the Huma and him in the tank and they are like pals. No fighting what so ever. The Clown is 6 inches and the Huma is 3 inches.

After 2 days, I noticed the Clown and the huma have ich. Now I sold all my tanks and wasn’t expecting this. I cant do a quarantine because I spent a lot on salt, I had to replace some lighting ect… I couldn’t dump the money on a QT yet.. After much research, Copper or Hypo is the way to go. I don't plan on ever having inverts (I like fish) so I opted to use copper. I pulled out all live rock and have them in a Garbage can (used earlier) with a powerhead and heater. Checking the parameters on their garbage can, the water is pristine. I'm now treating my 120 (bare bottom) with copper. My parameters are somewhat ok. My Ammonia is up to .25 PPM and the Nitrate is up to 5 PPM. My nitrite is at zero and my PH is holding at 8.3 . My wetdry has bio balls and removed the carbon. turned down the protein skimmer (still running but closed the venturi so that its not dry foaming as much as it should. Turned off the UV sterilizer and attached it to the garbage can so If there is any ich in the live rock it can be killed when free born. I plan on treating for 1 month.

My clown trigger and Huma are doing ok. They are eating just fine and my copper level is at 2.0. With no live rock to hide in, I put in a couple pieces of PVC pipe so they can sleep or hide at night.

I now know having a quarantine tank is the way to go whenever I buy a new fish. My question is, that I came across this site (and been told) that your fish that you sell here on saltwaterfish.com are healthy. I am nervous about this. I am afraid of buying a fish online because I can't see the fish that I'm buying. Can anyone out there validate that the fish are disease free. Does this distributor take precautions to make sure the fish that they ship out are disease free? I complained to the petstore I bought the fish from and he tells me all fish have ich.... Not sure what he means by this. Im not sure if I want to go back to him after this comment.

I feel the pet shops I went to (even thou the fish looked healthy) sold me sick fish. I'm looking for backup from others that purchased fish from this site and  that were healthy. Any confidence building pointers would be greatly appreciated as well.... Anything you can suggest would help. Thank you.

Thanks for the reply Mr. Limpid. Im aware of the Clown, Did some research and just fine with having him as a lone specimen over time. Fact is Ive always wanted one since I was a kid. He's so aware of humans, that makes it ok. My UV... It says to turn off the UV on the instructions of the Medication. I will take your advice and put the UV back on the DT. Not sure why they would say that.... to turn off the UV. Ive read that some say turn off the protein skimmer and others say leave it on. Any thought on that?

I will not add the live rock back in the DT until the 8 week suggestion. That makes sense. Im testing and following the tanks parameters closely. I will purchase some amquel like you said and have it on hand. I also have Prime on hand and that says you can use that as well, incase of a Ammonia spike. I have been doing water changes every day for the past 3 days. Small partial water changes with pre mixed  water from another storage garbage can. Im doing this to try and keep the Ammonia level low. I have also been adding the theraputic level of copper in the pre mixed water. The tank, so you know, was established when I purchased it. Its a used tank that was set up in a High School Library. Purchased it from a company that leased tanks and stocked them. Im sure youve seen them before in public areas. I was not expecting that saltwater fish were a roll of the dice when you buy them. Meaning now I feel that anytime I buy a fish its going to be a gamble. Not used to that.

Any pointers for future purchases would be appreciated.

Does this company (saltwaterfish.com) sell disease free fish? (I know that these fish are wild, but wonder if they quarantene there fish as well once they get them)

Does the phrase from my local pet store make sense? "all fish have ich"

Another line that threw me off was that this petstore said that UV's dont kill Ich. It just clarifies the water. Ive read this before and was under the impression that UV's stop pathegens and kill parasites... Is not the case?

Finally, Heres something that I dont get by all suggestions ive read on many threads...

Quaranteen any fish that is sick by removing the fish (It would have to be all fish so no spread and regeneration of the parasites) to the quaranteen tank. Now when the fish is healthy again, you throw it back in the DT that has Ich? Doesnt make sense to me. To me, destroying the parasite in the display tank makes sense to me. Now I can see this to be the case for hobbyists that have inverts and fish... but your constantly battling ich forever....

Thanks again Mr. Limpid.

I will leave the UV off the DT.

I will keep the UV in the Live Rock container. I beleive the UV will do what it says. The container (garbage can) is at 50 gallons with 2 water circulators (one pointing up in the front for oxygen and the other down for rolling circulation). Again the water quality in the container is pristine. Perfect...with a heater to keep it at 79 degrees. Im treating the live rock if they were fish. Im hoping that in one month the live rock container will be cured of ich with the UV sterilizer, but may opt for the 8 week suggestion. I dont want to cut corners for no reason...

I will use the Prime in extreme cases of a huge spike. Water changes will continue in the main tank.

Yes, I have a test kit to measure chelated copper. Im keeping it at 2-2.5 PPM in the DT. When I dosed the water tank, I measured the copper and have been double checking the levels in the storage tank before I add it to the DT. I have also been checking the DT a few hours after the water change. Giving it time to mix. Also checking the DT before I do water changes. The copper level is stable. Probably because its bare bottom and no LR in the tank.

I got it... yes, I was afraid of that. Not knowing and rolling the dice everytime.... that sux (lol).... This guy at the pet shop does seem like a good guy. I prefer to make them feed the fish before I buy. I did that and made sure no physical signs of illness present before I buy, but still run into sudden dealth. I couldnt understand, I checked my water to make sure before adding fish and the water was fine. I even brought a water sample to the Pet Store and he checked it and said it was good and should be ok. Tried to cover my bases but still ran into mysterious deaths.

I know about UV's from fresh water. The one I have is rated for 125 gallons. The bulb is 3 months old and wasnt used continuously. I am aware that they deteriorate over time. Every 6 months is the standard replacement time, if Im not mistaken. The main thing is having a pump rated at the GPH recommended for the correct exposure or dwell time. This insures iradication and or sterilizes larger parastites so they cant reproduce. My UV on the live rock container is flowing at 100 GPH. Thats twice the water volume every hour.

Also, yes, I have read many articles on the life span and cycle of ich. I know with copper it kills them at larval stage. Thanks for that.

IVe read that the treatment of copper must be done for one month on more than one article. With no copper your advice is 8 weeks.Thats something I didnt know.

Thank you again for your time and giving me the knowledge and pointing me in the right direction.

I really, really appreciate it. :)

Thanks for the advice Jeff.

I will be going with a QT tank when ever I stock or restock my tank. If I  someday part with my Clown Trigger, and want to go with a variety of fish, I will quaranteen first. Its not worth it to try other tank mates at this time. Im aware the Clown Trigger will eventually kill everything in my tank.

Im still not convinced on having fish shipped unless they can send me a video of the exact fish eating in thier holding tank. My main concern is the fish not eating when he arrives and withers and dies.

Ive only lost $80 so far in fish... I will be extra cautious when I restock my Display Tank. I will do one fish at a time or 2 small fish each time.

Great idea on asking how long they had the fish. Thats a great question. My local pet store has thier salinity at .018 and he said that he has copper running on all of his centralized saltwater tanks.

Also, this guy at the pet store near me says that you can leave the live rock in when you use copper and said that copper is the best way to rid your tank of ich. He said it wont kill the bacteria in the live rock but found on the internet that that is not the case. The live rock will die and absorb the copper. Thats why I removed the LR. Im glad I did and not take the advice from the pet shop.

I did do research on saltwater but never came across the idea that all saltwater fish have ich....I am trying to gain knowledge but to give you an idea this is what I come accross while doing some research.

-Copper is easier to treat than hypo. Hypo is not easy because of PH fluctuations. This is more stressful than using copper on the fish. My fish for example show no signs of stress. Eager as usual to eat. Maybe because I have Triggers which are hardy.

- Using lower salinity (around .018) keeps the ich in check. Anyone having fish only should have the salinity at .018 so the fish stay disease free. Is this the case? I read another thread saying thats a bunch of BS... Is this the right thing to do for a fish only tank?

-Once you put copper in your tank you will never be able to use the tank for inverts. Ran accross an article or thread where a guy who used copper in his DT. After a few months of regular water changes, he has no problem with crabs, shrimps, and turbo snails in his copper treated tank. He took everything out, used the copper, removed the copper and put the live rock and live sand back in. A few months went by (with water changes) and now has inverts that are doing great. Is this true? Some are saying yes definitly and others say no after a few months you can house inverts in that tank if you want.

-UV sterilizers are good for disease control. As you stated and others (like the guy at the petstore) a UV wont kill ich. I know to over size my UV on my tank(s) with freshwater and I never had issues with ich or any other pathagen. Because its saltwater, are the parasites more hardy to withstand a blast of UV light? 

-If you have cleaner wrasse or cleaner shrimp, you never have to worry about ich. I was told this by the guy who sold me my present DT. He's been in the hobby for 30 plus years....One article I ran across says that this is not the case and says that the shrimps or wrasse cant get the parasite once its dug in. They will only peck at the tissue surrounding the spot they entered. Why then have cleaner shrimp and why have cleaner wrasse when they cant get the most common type of parasite that all fish have? Are the hobbyists misguided or do they help?

Ive been reading and researching on what to do. This is the main reason I started this thread to find the best answer. Rather than reading on what one hobbyist says, which is different then what another hobbyist says. It is confusing. Needless to say that using UV's for disease control over the years (and has always worked for freshwater) is (now for some reason) not an option with saltwater. I wonder why this is... Im totaly clueless on this. UV's worked so well that if one fish was sick, the rest stayed healthy and the fish that was sick stayed sick and the other fish stayed healthy. It actually prevented a spread of the disease or parasite. Kept it under control. I cant say anything but good things about a UV light.

Thank you again Jeff for your input. I appreciate it!

Thank you for taking the time to read thru and answer my questions.

I didn't know they have such a long guarantee on their fish. The pet shop I go to, does not have a guarantee on any live stock. I will try saltwaterfish.com for my next purchase. A guarantee means they care for the fish and their customers. That's enough for me.

Thanks for the heads up on the copper use of a tank. I think someday I will have inverts when my experience gets better. I will use the copper absorbing pads, when I need to remove it. I will follow your advice.

Everything you said makes complete sense.

Thank you for your time, help with my issue and clearing up some questionable opinions. You seem very knowledgeable.

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and time.

Thanks for repying Beth and thanks again Mr. Limpid.

I appreciate the advice and knowledge for gaining a better understanding of the correct and proper procedures.

Thank you.