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It's things like this that give Marine's such a wonderful reputation... - Page 3

post #41 of 122
1/16/12 at 6:31am

I e-mailed a buddy of mine as he is Over in Aghanistan right now and asked him what he thought of this Video.  He said the only thing the Marines screwed up on was being Videotaped.  But remember the Marines have one of their OWN being held by the Taliban as a Hostage and might be trying to put some pressure on them to get him back from them.  He has heard UNCONFIRMED reports and he means UNCONFIRMED that some Spec Forces Units have cut back on attacks on their men by using 2 things one is Pigs Blood and Bacon in and on the Enemy dead.  Last is writing in both Arabic and the other language spoken there that we are now using Bullets soaked in Pigs guts.  One base has seen a 80% drop in attacks.

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post #42 of 122
1/16/12 at 7:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 View Post

I e-mailed a buddy of mine as he is Over in Aghanistan right now and asked him what he thought of this Video.  He said the only thing the Marines screwed up on was being Videotaped.  But remember the Marines have one of their OWN being held by the Taliban as a Hostage and might be trying to put some pressure on them to get him back from them.  He has heard UNCONFIRMED reports and he means UNCONFIRMED that some Spec Forces Units have cut back on attacks on their men by using 2 things one is Pigs Blood and Bacon in and on the Enemy dead.  Last is writing in both Arabic and the other language spoken there that we are now using Bullets soaked in Pigs guts.  One base has seen a 80% drop in attacks.


That's a complete urban legend.  That has been floating around since WWI.  See here about a General in thr teens who supposedly did the same thing...

Analysis: False. I consulted Dr. Frank E. Vandiver, professor of history at Texas A&M University and author of Black Jack: The Life and Times of John J. Pershing, to ask if there's any truth to the above that pigs blood and guts were used, and he responded via email that in his opinion the story is apocryphal.

 

"I never found any indication that it was true in extensive research on his Moro experiences," Vandiver wrote. "This kind of thing would have run completely against his character."
 

Similarly, I've been unable to find any evidence corroborating the claim that Muslims believe that "eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to hell." It is true that Islamic dietary restrictions, like those of Judaism, forbid the eating or handling of pork because pigs are considered unclean. But according to Raeed Tayeh of the American Muslim Association in North America, the notion that a Muslim would be denied entrance to heaven for touching a pig is "ridiculous." A statement from the Anti-Defamation League characterizes the claim as an "offensive caricature of Muslim beliefs."

 

And there you have it...

 

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post #43 of 122
1/16/12 at 7:56am

Kinda nice how conservatives get threads locked using words like "leftist whackos" because we're calling names even though it is not a personally directed attack but rather a generality, but leftists can actually call conservatives the most personal and vile names with impunity. Glad there's no double standard here. Let me call someone that name I was called and I would be banned. Anyway, Bionic just go back to where they care what you say. My one wish in life is that you could go somewhere there are no American soldiers to protect you and see how your leftist, anti-American drivel would play. You're not worth the effort to scrape you off the soles of my shoes.


Edited by mantisman51 - 1/16/12 at 10:02am
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post #44 of 122
1/16/12 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 View Post

Kinda nice how conservatives get threads locked using words like "leftist whackos" because we're calling names even though it is not a personally directed attack but rather a generality, but leftists can actually call conservatives the most personal and vile names with impunity. Glad there's no double standard here. Let me call someone that name I was called and I would be banned. Anyway, Bionic just go back to the bath house where they care what you say. My one wish in life is that you could go somewhere there are no American soldiers to protect you and see how your leftist, anti-American drivel would play. You're not worth the effort to scrape you off the soles of my shoes.



Did you call the post to the attention of the moderators?  I didn't get any notification of it until now.

 

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post #45 of 122
1/16/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid View Post




Thanks for leaving me hanging all by myself pal!  I was starting to feel like I was crazy thinking that urinating on a body was bad...



And I think it is bad, too. I just don't think it amounts to a hill of beans. And if there was a chance it would work to intimidate the enemy, then maybe worthwhile. I would rather they not pee on the enemy dead, but I am not going to categorize these brave men as war criminals and would be against any criminal procedures against them.

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post #46 of 122
1/16/12 at 9:36am

p.s. No Bang, I didn't. Other than spam and extremely inappropriate content, I just hope the mods catch it and don't flag posts.

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post #47 of 122
1/16/12 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 View Post

p.s. No Bang, I didn't. Other than spam and extremely inappropriate content, I just hope the mods catch it and don't flag posts.



I don't believe you are being fair to us.  I deleted the post and will discuss what is the appropriate action.  If you see bad behavior just flag it and let us know. 

 

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post #48 of 122
1/16/12 at 7:34pm
did anyone stop to think that maybe they were just honoring the dead, by getting a jump on the whole washing the body thing?

darth (pee on me when i am dead, i wont care then) Tang
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post #49 of 122
1/16/12 at 7:40pm
Leave it to you to come up with that one......
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post #50 of 122
1/18/12 at 7:54pm

 

I haven’t been on this site in months and I normally do not agree with Clemson's post but I feel obligated to reply to this thread. Keep in mind I read the first few post in this thread only.

I am a United States Marine. I served, I wore the EGA and I fought in Afghanistan many years ago, actually I was a part of the first Marines into Afghanistan after 9/11. 26th MEU

First off what these Marines did was disgraceful, immature and most of all against the Marine Corps core values. We as Marines are taught, trained and expected to act in a manner above those we have pledged to protect "civilians" and those who have also pledged to protect who do not wear our Eagle Globe and Anchor "other members of the armed forces". 

 

The United States prides itself on being the Greatest Nation on Earth regardless of if you agree with that statement or not we as American's should have the maturity and the fortitude to respect all life, even those of our enemies even if that same respect isn’t given in return. Those virtues are what allow us to rise above the rest; these are also the same virtues our founding father envisioned that founded this great nation. 

 

Death is an acceptable outcome of war, our rules of engagement govern the cirmstances that enemy combadants can be enguaged with deadly force. The way we treat our enemies remains should be no less respectful then we would treat our own troops. It saddens me that we let hate, religion, and our own blood lust get in the way of what the United States stands for.

 It’s unfortunate that after 10 years we still have troops in harm’s way due to blundered political process but the fact remains that our troops and especially our Marines should act accordingly in these grievous situations.  Support your troops support your community, communicate with your elected officials and more of all get out and vote, we need to bring our troops home from these undeclared wars.

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post #51 of 122
1/18/12 at 8:34pm

First, thank you for your service. Second, I respect what you said whole-heartedly. Third, I think most folks(me included) find the act disgusting. My only contention is that it is immature and bone-headed, not criminal. Further, there are too many in our country who can't wait to find any excuse possible to besmirch the men and women who are standing between the really bad people and us. I will always stand up for our service members when I think they are being unfairly treated. These young guys made a stupid mistake in the heat of battle. They are not war criminals and they are not bad guys. And a little perspective would be nice by those on the left-our guys peed on some dead dirtbags. Their guys cut the head off screaming victims and treat women worse than animals.

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post #52 of 122
1/19/12 at 5:00am

Right my Brother just retired from the USAF as a Master Sargent.  He was Just Notifed that he might be Retroactive COURTMARTIALED for something that happened 3 YEars ago when he was TDY.  He failed to account for 2 dollars on an Expense report when he was the one nailing a Colonel butt to the WALL for falsifing reports on READINESS of his Fighter WING Ejection Seats.  They had seat Charges that were 12 Years old in them and they are required to be changed out every 3 years.  He saved how many lives with this action but because he can not account for 2 dollars they are going after him for defrauding the Goverment.  How much are they spending on the case so FAR. 

 

His old Base Commander thinks why they came after him is simple the Colonel that got his Butt hammered was supposed to end up in the White house Signals office however he is doing 15 years at Leavenworth instead. 

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post #53 of 122
1/19/12 at 7:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yerboy View Post

 

I haven’t been on this site in months and I normally do not agree with Clemson's post but I feel obligated to reply to this thread. Keep in mind I read the first few post in this thread only.

I am a United States Marine. I served, I wore the EGA and I fought in Afghanistan many years ago, actually I was a part of the first Marines into Afghanistan after 9/11. 26th MEU

First off what these Marines did was disgraceful, immature and most of all against the Marine Corps core values. We as Marines are taught, trained and expected to act in a manner above those we have pledged to protect "civilians" and those who have also pledged to protect who do not wear our Eagle Globe and Anchor "other members of the armed forces". 

 

The United States prides itself on being the Greatest Nation on Earth regardless of if you agree with that statement or not we as American's should have the maturity and the fortitude to respect all life, even those of our enemies even if that same respect isn’t given in return. Those virtues are what allow us to rise above the rest; these are also the same virtues our founding father envisioned that founded this great nation. 

 

Death is an acceptable outcome of war, our rules of engagement govern the cirmstances that enemy combadants can be enguaged with deadly force. The way we treat our enemies remains should be no less respectful then we would treat our own troops. It saddens me that we let hate, religion, and our own blood lust get in the way of what the United States stands for.

 It’s unfortunate that after 10 years we still have troops in harm’s way due to blundered political process but the fact remains that our troops and especially our Marines should act accordingly in these grievous situations.  Support your troops support your community, communicate with your elected officials and more of all get out and vote, we need to bring our troops home from these undeclared wars.




I am so very glad you posted.  This, ladies and gentlemen, is what a real Marine represents.  If every Marine we sent to the battlefield was as mature and respectful as this soldier, I think we'd have a slightly different view of what a Marine represents in the eyes of the world.  Thank you for your service and for protecting my freedoms the right way, the noble way, and most importantly being respectful enough to differentiate yourself from the rest of the enemies out there who have none of what you do.  

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post #54 of 122
1/19/12 at 7:51am

Ok, Clem, I can go along with everything you just posted...except: I don't give 3 shiites what the rest of the world thinks about our Marines. We are the United States and we have a 236 year record of being the good guys. Every friggin' country comes to us with their hands out and beg for more of our money-even our enemies. So I couldn't care less what "everyone else in the world" thinks about us. We don't have to answer to anyone. I just wish our worthless politicians understood that.

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post #55 of 122
1/19/12 at 9:52am

So let me get this straight, we are worried about what they'll think about us after a little urine, but not after we just wasted them....  Perspective....

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post #56 of 122
1/19/12 at 9:05pm

Clem, people make mistakes, have poor judgment.  I'm sure these guys at this point wish they could take it all back.  What they did does not make them evil.

 

Human beings don't always make the most noble choice.  Doesn't mean that we, sitting here comfortably in front of our pcs, should be casting moral judgment and throwing our soldiers under the bus when something like this happens.

 

No one is a paragon of virtue.

 

America is still living down the shame of spitting on our Vietnam soldiers.  Lets give the guys a break.  

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post #57 of 122
1/20/12 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth View Post

Clem, people make mistakes, have poor judgment.  I'm sure these guys at this point wish they could take it all back.  What they did does not make them evil.

 

Human beings don't always make the most noble choice.  Doesn't mean that we, sitting here comfortably in front of our pcs, should be casting moral judgment and throwing our soldiers under the bus when something like this happens.

 

No one is a paragon of virtue.

 

America is still living down the shame of spitting on our Vietnam soldiers.  Lets give the guys a break.  


Look, I think there is a big difference between "in the heat of the moment", and then what these guys did.  Let's say that these Taliban were shooting at the Marine's all day and then these four Marine's get in behind them and put a bullet in their head.  Then, in a moment of rage from all the pent up fury, fire off another twenty rounds.  That I can understand, no questions asked.

 

However, who knows how long these bodies were dead and gone.  The fact that these guys seems so calm and collected, even making jokes about it, leads me to believe that this was far past the point of "heat of the moment".

 

Like the former soldier on this board said:

The United States prides itself on being the Greatest Nation on Earth regardless of if you agree with that statement or not we as American's should have the maturity and the fortitude to respect all life, even those of our enemies even if that same respect isn’t given in return. Those virtues are what allow us to rise above the rest; these are also the same virtues our founding father envisioned that founded this great nation.

 

If you give these guys a free pass, then what is going to stop the next group of Marine's from doing the exact same thing.  After all, they're just gonna think "well those other guys got off, so who cares?" 

 

As far as Vietnam goes, I was born in 1981, so I can't say I know what that was like.  However, I think that there are probably a big group of people in their 50's and up, who equate all people who are "anti war", with people who "don't like soldiers". 

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.  I greatly respect and appreciate all our soldiers.  However, I don't agree or condone the reasons we are there in the first place.  Big money and big government are making the choices here, not the soldiers.  They just go where they are told (usually some crap shack in the middle of extremely hostile territory and are expected to fight for the country regardless of why we are there). 

 

In WWII, and prior, we were typically fighting for freedom (either for ourselves or others).  Since then in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc, we have been there mainly for financial and political reasons wrapped in the lovely "we're fighting for (insert foreign country here's) freedom". 

 

I feel awful for the soldiers because in essence they are nothing more than a pawn in a very large scheme to make a lot of people very wealthy or powerful, and the sad part is it's the soldiers who are the ones laying their life on the line and other than their pay, they get nothing in return.

 


 

 

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post #58 of 122
1/20/12 at 3:44pm

I am not sure anyone  thinks they should get a free pass. It just doesn't warrant the level of outrage some people are showing over it. As I said in my first post, put yourself in their shoes and tell me you would at least think about it. It's understandable, a lot more than the crap that happened at the prison.

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post #59 of 122
1/20/12 at 3:58pm

IMO it is perspective, we have trained killers, and we are worried about some urine.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say those terrorists mothers are not crying that they got peed on, but because they got shot...

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post #60 of 122
1/20/12 at 4:03pm

should have poured pigs blood on them.really i have a couple friends who are marines and this is nothing to what they tell me goes on.just utube some stuff.i have seen shoulder rockets from marines on there .right after the thing hits its target the soilders are laughing and joking.fine with me what ever gets the job done.

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