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Live Rock Question???

post #1 of 30
1/25/12 at 11:34pm
Thread Starter 

hello im new to the hobby and am working on gathering supplies still for my aquarium and wasnt sure if the live rock used in the tank helps with keeping nitrates low or do i need to find another way to take care of nitrates. i know the rock should be able to handle the amonia and nitrites but wasnt sure about nitrates? Also is it possible to use some small rock rubble inside a canister filter for extra bio filtration or does the rock need to be exposed to light in order for the bacteria to grow?

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post #2 of 30
1/26/12 at 3:52am

generally you will find LR doesn't remove nitrates in an appreciable manner. while in most larger chunks of LR there will be some anaerobic activity that will remove some nitrate, the overall effect isn't usually enough to rely on.   there are many other avenues of nitrate reduction that you should look into, primarily, water changes are your best bet. Deep sand beds, remote DSB's, and Various others.

 

 

the bacteria on rock does not need light, it needs h20 and 02. so putting it in a cannister filter will work for biofiltration you must remember to clean it regularly or the cannister will force junk into the pores of the rock creating a nitrate factory with the trapped detritus and very little bio capacity.

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post #3 of 30
1/26/12 at 5:59am

ya people fill there canisters with LR rubble.... a good skimmer and a weekly small water change will usually keep em in check!

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post #4 of 30
1/26/12 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude View Post

ya people fill there canisters with LR rubble.... a good skimmer and a weekly small water change will usually keep em in check!


+1....not overstocking your tank will also keep the nitrates down. I recommend the Tunze brand skimmer...it's worth the cost.

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post #5 of 30
1/26/12 at 8:14am

Don't forget macroalgae for reducing nitrates. I have not seen a detectable nitrate level in nearly 1 1/2 years since adding a refugium full of chaeto.

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post #6 of 30
1/26/12 at 8:34am

good thing about the macro is that it will eat phosphates, nitrates, and keep ur Ph more stable! It gets something else too but i cant remember wat and it keeps ur Ph more stable because it takes it out... man i wish i could remember lol!

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post #7 of 30
1/26/12 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude View Post

good thing about the macro is that it will eat phosphates, nitrates, and keep ur Ph more stable! It gets something else too but i cant remember wat and it keeps ur Ph more stable because it takes it out... man i wish i could remember lol!



pH stays stable, due to the processes of turning carbon gases into oxygen. It has more to do with simple photosynthesis then anything else. When you first start a sump with macro algae, it's not unusual for the pH to still swing for a couple days or weeks as the algae starts to grow.

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post #8 of 30
1/26/12 at 10:56am

THXS! Thats wat i was trying to say... the gas exchange from the macro! Carbon dioxide into O2.... thxs for the clear up Xcali!

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post #9 of 30
1/26/12 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude View Post

THXS! Thats wat i was trying to say... the gas exchange from the macro! Carbon dioxide into O2.... thxs for the clear up Xcali!



:). No problem

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post #10 of 30
1/26/12 at 12:54pm
Thread Starter 

thanks for all the tips only problem is i dont really have the cash to purchase a sump set up i know that is the ideal filtration set up for salt water tanks. i have herd of nitrate sponges or other like super porus rocks and things that can be used dont know how effective these are but maybe i should just start doing some home work and build a sump. i have thought about building one but just not 100% sure on whats required. one thing im not sure how to figure out is how do you know how much water your sump is going to filter?? just based on how many gph your return pump will do??

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post #11 of 30
1/26/12 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddv89 View Post

thanks for all the tips only problem is i dont really have the cash to purchase a sump set up i know that is the ideal filtration set up for salt water tanks. i have herd of nitrate sponges or other like super porus rocks and things that can be used dont know how effective these are but maybe i should just start doing some home work and build a sump. i have thought about building one but just not 100% sure on whats required. one thing im not sure how to figure out is how do you know how much water your sump is going to filter?? just based on how many gph your return pump will do??



Make the sump based on the size, and bioload of your tank.

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post #12 of 30
1/26/12 at 1:08pm

A sump is simple...its the plumbing that drives me bonkers! LOL... drip drip drip.

 

U want ur overflow to be rated higher than ur return pump imo... that way ur never pumping more water back into ur tank, than u can suck down. Hope that makes any sense.

 

You need E6000 and some 1/4" thick acrylic... they sell drill kits with the overflow box.

 

easy man...

 

 

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post #13 of 30
1/26/12 at 1:08pm

A sump is simple...its the plumbing that drives me bonkers! LOL... drip drip drip.

 

U want ur overflow to be rated higher than ur return pump imo... that way ur never pumping more water back into ur tank, than u can suck down. Hope that makes any sense.

 

You need E6000 and some 1/4" thick acrylic... they sell drill kits with the overflow box.

 

easy man...

 

 

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post #14 of 30
1/26/12 at 1:09pm

A sump is simple...its the plumbing that drives me bonkers! LOL... drip drip drip.

 

U want ur overflow to be rated higher than ur return pump imo... that way ur never pumping more water back into ur tank, than u can suck down. Hope that makes any sense.

 

You need E6000 and some 1/4" thick acrylic... they sell drill kits with the overflow box.

 

easy man...

 

 

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post #15 of 30
1/26/12 at 2:23pm



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice View Post

Don't forget macroalgae for reducing nitrates. I have not seen a detectable nitrate level in nearly 1 1/2 years since adding a refugium full of chaeto.



 

+1

 

Also IMHO it is the algae (hopefully corraline) on the rocks that makes live rock effective.  And the algae helps reduce nitrAtes as well.

 

 

my .02

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post #16 of 30
1/26/12 at 2:29pm

Really? U dont think its the bacteria in the rock? I look at coralline as a good indicator that ur on the right path.... proper cal and mag levels...and watever else grow the algae.

 

The bacteria is the starter for the aerobic and anerobic process.

 

 

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post #17 of 30
1/26/12 at 3:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude View Post

Really? U dont think its the bacteria in the rock? I look at coralline as a good indicator that ur on the right path.... proper cal and mag levels...and watever else grow the algae.

 

The bacteria is the starter for the aerobic and anerobic process.

 

 



well as i understand it if the rock was large eanough and porus eanough it would then be able to have anaerobic bacteria deep inside the rock that would eliminate nitrates but you probally couldnt fill your tank with eanough of these kinds of rock to "control" your nitrates. but the algae being a plant will use the nitrates as a food source but if you have eanough nitrates in your tank then you could have an algae problem. thats probally why letting it grow in your sump where you cant see it would do the job pretty good. some thing along these lines??

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post #18 of 30
1/26/12 at 4:14pm

As the algae absorbs the nitrates and phosphates as an additional food source to the light for photosynthesis it is still contained in the plant. You put it in a refugium or sump so that you can easily control it. By control I mean harvest it, which helps remove the nitrates and phosphates from the system. You see if the algae were to die for some reason all of those nutrients would be released back into the water as the algae decayed. Why would it die, well it could grow so thick that not light gets to the bottom of the algae in the sump, it could die from no nutrient in the water if your other maintenance efforts were reducing the available nutrient. So algae also have a time of reproduction where the algae dies off and releases gamates into the system. All of those things could in fact "poison" your water. That it why it is important to prune or harvest the algae you are using to nutrient reduction.

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post #19 of 30
1/27/12 at 1:07pm



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1guyDude View Post

A sump is simple...its the plumbing that drives me bonkers! LOL... drip drip drip.

 

U want ur overflow to be rated higher than ur return pump imo... that way ur never pumping more water back into ur tank, than u can suck down. Hope that makes any sense.

 

You need E6000 and some 1/4" thick acrylic... they sell drill kits with the overflow box.

 

easy man...

 

 


I must admit my canister filter ran flawless and silently. However the drip, drip you mention sounds like a flowing creek or rain dripping off the roof to me...I love it, I used to sleep with a fan on for white noise, now I sleep by the gurggle of my SH tank.

 

You don't have to keep macro algae just in a refugium, there are some truely beautiful macro algae that are worthy of being in the display.The red macros are as pretty as coral and really adds color to the tank. The added bonus of lowering nitrates and phosphates makes a very nice combo of why you should do it.
 

 

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post #20 of 30
1/27/12 at 1:11pm

huh...they say the sound will go down when it builds up some nice slime coat but idk lol... funny how u find it soothing and relaxing flower but it drives me up the walls!

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