Bad News Please Read This

[florida joe]

Almost half of the coral reef ecosystems in the United States territory are in poor or fair condition, mostly due to rising ocean temperatures. This is according to a government report released Monday July 7th 2008. The reefs discussed in the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Admin. Report serves as breeding grounds for many of the world’s seafood species and act as indicators of overall ocean health.

25 percent of all marine species need coral reefs to live and grow, while 40 percent of the fish caught commercially use reefs to breed.

Since the last report in 2005, the Caribbean region has lost at least 50 percent of its corals largely because of the risen in sea temperatures.

ELKHORN and STAGHORN corals have also been listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, the first corals ever to receive such protection based on rapid declines.

The 569-page report took 18 months to complete and was released at the 11th International Coral Reef Symposium in Fort Lauderdale.
It does not paint a pretty picture of our world reefs but it is important reading for all of us.

Please if you have the time seek it out and read it.

[m0nk]

So no link?

[Veni Vidi Vici]

All computers will crash at 12:00 am on Jan.1,2000......
The ice caps are melting.......Global Warming.........
If someone is getting paid millions of dollars to write a 569 page report that took 18 months to write,well they better have some bad news for us.
"The sky is falling ,the sky is falling!!"

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici

All computers will crash at 12:00 am on Jan.1,2000......
The ice caps are melting.......Global Warming.........
If someone is getting paid millions of dollars to write a 569 page report that took 18 months to write,well they better have some bad news for us.
"The sky is falling ,the sky is falling!!"

Yea I guess you are right *watch the language!!!!!* it who cares anyway

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Originally Posted by florida joe

Yea I guess you are right who cares anyway

Heh eh,now thats a better attitude.
I have to say this ,if the temp of the oceans keeps rising and the polar caps melt,Florida will soon be consumed by the ocean.Now then, we will have a natural disaster on our hands,all that land locked pollution will now be released into our oceans.
Beer cans,plastic baggies, garbage all over our ocean floors....

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici

Heh eh,now thats a better attitude.
I have to say this ,if the temp of the oceans keeps rising and the polar caps melt,Florida will soon be consumed by the ocean.Now then, we will have a natural disaster on our hands,all that land locked pollution will now be released into our oceans.
Beer cans,plastic baggies, garbage all over our ocean floors....

What will I care I will move to New Lenox Il. That is if I can find it on the map. I mean it is a real place right. oh what the hell happened to old lenox. Ok I found it. The problem was I was not looking under villages.

[Blazin2k6]

http://www.coris.noaa.gov/

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Blazin2k6

http://www.coris.noaa.gov/

Nice to see at least someone was interested

[sepulatian]

The site isn't working too well at the moment, or perhaps it is my computer. I only got half way through the facts sheet on this. I will say my take on it though. It is certainly a concern. Not just the raising water temperature but all of the things that are contributing to the damage of the reefs such as pollution, over fishing, global warming, poor collection practices etc. As for the elevation of temperatures, it is my humble opinion that many species will adapt to the changing water conditions, others will evolve. Certainly species will be lost. Not that that isn't a concern, it is. The reefs have been around for a very long time though. I am sure that the water conditions are not the same as they once were.

[COWFISHRULE]

i agree.

life will find a way....

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Originally Posted by florida joe

What will I care I will move to New Lenox Il. That is if I can find it on the map. I mean it is a real place right. oh what the hell happened to old lenox. Ok I found it. The problem was I was not looking under villages.

LOL ...my,my arent we sensitive.Sure you can find New Lenox its right next to that big ole city Chicago.The city thats going Green and doing its part to prevent "GLOBAL WARMING"
BTW i didnt mean to offend you if that indeed is what i did.I was just stating my own personal opinion and wasnt aiming to step on your toes.

[T316]

This use to concern me, but not much anymore. Look back and read Alix2.0's research paper she did. If they were that worried about it, they could build as many "reefs" as they wanted, anywhere in the world. If the temps are to high in one area, move to a cooler location. It's really not as hard as it once seemed. And if we can build the kind of reefs we have in our living rooms, just think of what can be done in the ocean.

[COWFISHRULE]

ebb and flow, my friends.

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici

LOL ...my,my arent we sensitive.Sure you can find New Lenox its right next to that big ole city Chicago.The city thats going Green and doing its part to prevent "GLOBAL WARMING"
BTW i didnt mean to offend you if that indeed is what i did.I was just stating my own personal opinion and wasnt aiming to step on your toes.

My friend no offence taken

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by T316

This use to concern me, but not much anymore. Look back and read Alix2.0's research paper she did. If they were that worried about it, they could build as many "reefs" as they wanted, anywhere in the world. If the temps are to high in one area, move to a cooler location. It's really not as hard as it once seemed. And if we can build the kind of reefs we have in our living rooms, just think of what can be done in the ocean.

Actually Florida is undertaking a vast artificial reef project http://www.floridaconservation.org/marine/ar/index.asp

[T316]

Originally Posted by florida joe

Actually Florida is undertaking a vast artificial reef project http://www.floridaconservation.org/marine/ar/index.asp

Now that's being proactive and doing something about it. Good for Florida and the Fed's for taking this on

[TexasMetal]

No doubt mankind has contributed to a lot of natures problems, the majority of natures problems really. But Earths climate has shifted occasionally throughout history, even long before we began creating industrial waste.

As others said, nature will balance itself out. Some creatures will adapt, some will go extinct, some will become totally new species. Maybe that will include some culling of the human herd in the process. Some call it disaster. I call it renewal.

[guzman825]

the crowned thorn star fish is becoming way over populated. in 10 years or so it can cover the great berrier reef. not just cover it but FILL it.

[TexasMetal]

Originally Posted by guzman825

the crowned thorn star fish is becoming way over populated. in 10 years or so it can cover the great berrier reef. not just cover it but FILL it.

And so without human intervention it was meant to be. Survival of the fittest. Sucks for us in our own selfish human way, but it's the way nature intended. Otherwise a natural predator would eliminate and balance the threat.

[T316]

Originally Posted by guzman825

the crowned thorn star fish is becoming way over populated. in 10 years or so it can cover the great berrier reef. not just cover it but FILL it.

Being at the top of the food chain, we "humans" should be able to solve that one....
Can they be grilled, smoked, what.... Not familiar with that species, but I have always been willing to try new things

[rushprop]

IMO the global warming, psyco hard enviromentalist just want you to feel bad for being human. Everything is our fault and there is always a new disaster that is just around the corner that is some man made. Anything to scare society so they can grip just a bit tighter and take more control(money) out of the hands of regular citizens. Pretty soon we are going to have to have biofilters on our rears do to toxic gases being released.

[TexasMetal]

Anyone see the report that stated Al Gore used enough electricity in his house a month or two ago to power over 200 average households?

How's that for an "inconvenient truth"?

[T316]

Originally Posted by rushprop

Pretty soon we are going to have to have biofilters on our rears do to toxic gases being released.

I think that device should be named the..."Al Gore Fart-O-Meter".
Or either the "Ophra Wifrey Shitzdometor"

[Tizzo]

Originally Posted by TexasMetal

And so without human intervention it was meant to be. Survival of the fittest. Sucks for us in our own selfish human way, but it's the way nature intended. Otherwise a natural predator would eliminate and balance the threat.

The crown of thorns is not what nature intended. It's what humans caused. The larvae of the crown-of-thorns starfish begins as zooplankton, so the presence of fertilizer causes the crown-of-thorns starfish to thrive. Humans are responsible for the "outbreak", so humans try to curb the abundance.

I'll try to find an article...

[Tizzo]

At 1:55 it starts to get interesting, but at 2:25 is what I was referring to...

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/co...eaks/243476062

Or here's a 2 page article..

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ish-swarm.html

With this info...

High nutrient levels due to agricultural fertilizer runoff were most likely responsible for the population boom, he added.

"It stimulates blooms of microalgae—plankton—and the larvae of the crown-of-thorns starfish, under those conditions, survive very well," he said.

"In normal years, perhaps one in a million [starfish larvae] might survive. In one of these years, maybe a hundred in a million survive. You get huge recruitment."

[NOTSONOOB]

Originally Posted by T316

I think that device should be named the..."Al Gore Fart-O-Meter".
Or either the "Ophra Wifrey Shitzdometor"

At least there will be a place to stick the hockey stick he used to trace his charts.

[sepulatian]

Some more related info :
Researcher says Gulf dead zone bigger than ever
By MICHAEL GRACZYK, Associated Press Writer Posted Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:39am PDT

HOUSTON - A "dead zone" in the Gulf of Mexico off the Texas-Louisiana coast this year is likely to be the biggest ever and last longer than ever before, with marine life affected for hundreds of miles, a scientist warned.

"It's definitely the worst we've seen in the last five years," said Steve DiMarco, a Texas A&M University professor of oceanography who for 16 years has studied the Gulf of Mexico dead zone, so named because the oxygen-depleted water can kill marine life.

The phenomenon is caused when salt water loses large amounts of oxygen, a condition known as hypoxia that is typically associated with an area off the Louisiana coast at the mouth of the Mississippi River. The fresh water and salt water don't mix well, keeping oxygen from filtering through to the sea bottom, which causes problems for fish, shrimp, crabs and clams.

This year's dead zone has been aggravated by flood runoff from heavy spring rains and additional runoff moving into the Gulf from record floods along the Mississippi.

DiMarco, joined by researchers from Texas A&M and the University of Georgia, just returned from an examination of 74 sites between Terrebonne and Cameron, La. He said the most severe hypoxia levels were recorded in the mid-range depths, between 20 and 30 feet, as well as near the bottom of the sea floor at about 60 feet.

Some of the worst hypoxic levels occurred in the western Gulf toward the state line.

"We saw quite a few areas that had little or no oxygen at all at that site," DiMarco said Tuesday. "This dead zone area is the strongest we've seen since 2004, and it's very likely the worst may be still to come.

"Since most of the water from the Midwest is still making its way down to the Gulf, we believe that wide area of hypoxia will persist through August and likely until September, when it normally ends."

Last year, DiMarco discovered a similar dead zone off the Texas coast where the rain-swollen Brazos River emptied into the Gulf.

The zone off Louisiana reached a record 7,900 square miles in 2002. A recent estimate from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Louisiana State University shows the zone, which has been monitored for about 25 years, could exceed 8,800 square miles this year, an area roughly the size of New Jersey.

DiMarco said a tropical storm or hurricane likely would have no impact on this year's zone, believed to be caused by nutrient pollution from fertilizers that empty into rivers and eventually reach the Gulf.


Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by Tizzo

The crown of thorns is not what nature intended. It's what humans caused. The larvae of the crown-of-thorns starfish begins as zooplankton, so the presence of fertilizer causes the crown-of-thorns starfish to thrive. Humans are responsible for the "outbreak", so humans try to curb the abundance.

^ Agreed. Not to mention the fact that humans have been removing the natural predators that feast on the CoT Starfish for either use in the food industry or for the aquarium trade.

I did a 12 page research paper on the practicality of coral reef conservation for an english assignment and there is a hefty list of threats... Temperature fluctuations, CO2 saturation, offshore drilling, coral mining (extracting calcium from reefs), misuse of the aquarium trade, reef erosion, pollution, dumping, human expansion, blast fishing, cyanide fishing, over fishing, and tourism to name a few. Its surprising how many ways people negatively affect the reefs but also how much we depend on them for everything from raw materials to crude proteins that can be used for making powerful medicines.

[Nemo_66]

reading posts and articles like this make me sad to see what the world will be once i grow up to be older. just to see what the world looks like when i hit 50. florida sinks, reefs disapear, fart difusers...lol

[florida joe]

The Marine Mammal Center in Sausalito, Calf. Reports an alarming incidence of cancer stricken sea lions whose tumors are thought to be associated with PCBs Sea Otters infected with a parasite linked to runoff and Seals sickened by toxic algae. The National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis found that only 3.7 % of the world’s oceans show neither little nor no detrimental impact from human activity.

The U.S. government spends relatively little on the sea. Around $18,700 pre square mile goes to the National Park System, while only $400. Per square mile goes to its ocean counterpart, the National Marine Sanctuary System. Close to 99%of conservation dollars donated go to land causes. Yet oceans cover 70% of the earth.

Anyone planning a trip to the Bahamas can plan a scuba diving or snorkeling trip sponsored by the Atlantis resort which allows you to see the difference between a healthy reef and a degraded one that contains bleached coral and not much else its pretty eye opening

[Scopus Tang]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici

LOL ...my,my arent we sensitive.Sure you can find New Lenox its right next to that big ole city Chicago.The city thats going Green and doing its part to prevent "GLOBAL WARMING"
BTW i didnt mean to offend you if that indeed is what i did.I was just stating my own personal opinion and wasnt aiming to step on your toes.

Hey Veni, just out of curiousity, what is Chicago doing to go Green? I'm always curious to hear what this big cities are doing. Sometimes though you have to look a little deeper. Six years ago, the city of Boston spent millions on a new sewage treatment facility, in order to clean up and restore the water quality of Boston Harbor ~ an area we humans have been dumping waste in since the Boston Tea Party. It was at the time so toxic that swimming was not allowed, and fish caught out of the harbor could not be eaten. Guess how they stopped dumping waste into Boston Harbor? Thats right, they now pump it several miles out into the Atlantic and dump it in the middle of a National Marine Mammal Sanctuary . At what cost have we improved the water quality of Boston Harbor?

(BTW Joe, I like your new avator).

[KingSmith]

Its a shame that you could find and start about a thousand political threads talking nonsense but just a few concerning and informative threads like this one at least someone is looking toward making a difference.

Newest offical member of the extinct species list Caribean Monk Seal RIP

I saw a program on how Chicago was planting gardens on top of alot of empty roofs acroos the city, not too sure about the major enviromental advantages of this but there are a few small benefits and I think its a good Idea.

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by KingSmith

Its a shame that you could find and start about a thousand political threads talking nonsense but just a few concerning and informative threads like this one at least someone is looking toward making a difference.

Newest offical member of the extinct species list Caribean Monk Seal RIP

I saw a program on how Chicago was planting gardens on top of alot of empty roofs acroos the city, not too sure about the major enviromental advantages of this but there are a few small benefits and I think its a good Idea.

Yes quite a legacy we are leaving, we of the enlighten generation. A question was once asked of Mahat Magandi what he thought of western civilizaton and the response was that it would be A GOOD IDEA

Randy I had a feeling you would like the new me

[metweezer]

Joe,
I liked your Beetlegeuse one. Is this the first time you changed your avatar?

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by metweezer

Joe,
I liked your Beetlegeuse one. Is this the first time you changed your avatar?

yes Steve it is

[Ret Talbot]

Hey, Guys. Thanks for this thread...I found it inspirational...

If you're interested, I did blog about this thread here at www.SaltwaterSense.com where the conversation continues....

Ret

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by florida joe

ELKHORN and STAGHORN corals have also been listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, the first corals ever to receive such protection based on rapid declines.

that just great, now we'll be bombarded with stupid names for Elkhorn and stag horn coral and labeled Limited edition, no longer sold in stores, get it while you can.

Bring back Don west from the home shopping club to sell these coral.
Limited edition staghorn coral people B dialing. First thousand buyers get a ken griffy jr rookie card.

[AquaKnight]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9

that just great, now we'll be bombarded with stupid names for Elkhorn and stag horn coral and labeled Limited edition, no longer sold in stores, get it while you can.

Bring back Don west from the home shopping club to sell these coral.
Limited edition staghorn coral people B dialing. First thousand buyers get a ken griffy jr rookie card.

Really?

When was the last time you saw an Elkhorn, available for sell? ANYWHERE???

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight

Really?

When was the last time you saw an Elkhorn, available for sell? ANYWHERE???

I hope no one does see them for sale
ELKHORN and STAGHORN corals have been listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, the first corals ever to receive such protection based on rapid declines.

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight

Really?

When was the last time you saw an Elkhorn, available for sell? ANYWHERE???

Well i can tell you two sites that have elkhorn for trade or for sale but i can not give names or links but one alone ends in .org
and a couple of people have elk and staghorn for sale.
My god man, what cause i called out that some numb nut will try that sale tactic you get bent?
I like the feistiness

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by florida joe

I hope no one does see them for sale
ELKHORN and STAGHORN corals have been listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, the first corals ever to receive such protection based on rapid declines.

yeah but what about people who have them already? Its going to be an excuse to bump price. Not like the goverment is gonna round of aquacultured frags and say put em back.

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9

yeah but what about people who have them already? Its going to be an excuse to bump price. Not like the goverment is gonna round of aquacultured frags and say put em back.

I don’t think we are talking about coral that is already in the loop. It’s the harvesting of coral that is endangered that need to be stopped

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by florida joe

I don’t think we are talking about coral that is already in the loop. It’s the harvesting of coral that is endangered that need to be stopped

I agree 100% with this. No need to be collecting coral that is having a hard time. I was talking about the scumbag who finds this out and ups the price for a frag of it.
Thats all i was getting at.

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9

I agree 100% with this. No need to be collecting coral that is having a hard time. I was talking about the scumbag who finds this out and ups the price for a frag of it.
Thats all i was getting at.

and point well taken

[Madwabbit23]

I personally disagree with *most of* the "global warming" theories, as do my senior professors. But they "acknowledge that the climate is adjusting, and that ocean and polar temperature changes have fluctuated a tenth of a degree and will continue to rise"

Why? So they get grants (aka money) to continue researching the theory.

I care about the environment, but this planet is billions of years old and annual temperature logs have only been kept for the past 200 years. 200 years of data against Xbillions in existence. Maybe the natural order of the planet's survival is to raise temperature a tenth of a degree every few centuries? My point is that when you put our current technological findings into the grand picture...we have very weak and insufficient data.

Fast forward to 600page reports, and you have a puzzled eco-maniac suggesting armageddon theories to justify his years of non conclusive research...which no one possesses enough of to base ANY opinion one way or the other.

However, with regards to mans physical impact on oceans reefs, fish, and eco balances: Yes, I think there are multiple issues ranging from residential and commercial erosion, oil/natural gas collection (and mistakes), harvesting of specific, and sometimes endangered species of coral/fish/mammals...the list goes on.

Yes, I think the world as a whole is destroying earths most precious resource, and its delicate environments. No, I do not think that my SUV is going to cause florida to be underwater or california to become an island. (within the next few million years).

anyway ...just my .02.

[florida joe]

Do most of your senior professors really think most of the research on global warming is a scare tactic to elicit more funding for research. If you don’t mind would you tell me the school you attend

[Beth]

I'm not so sure, frankly. Coming from a place that has the only reefs in the continental USA, Florida Keys, I think there is more to it then global warming. Closer to home. Like pollution coming from various sources. The dead zone in the Gulf....also water pollution, not global warming.

One source of pollution, trying to build a city where there should only be swamps---New Orleans. There is so much more to it.

I don't jump on the global warming bandwagon. Not to say that humans don't produce all of the pollution on the planet, but its just too easy these days to blame global warming. And it is very much a "political" issue, as we play with more and more regulation in the name of global warming.

[florida joe]

Beth after reading your post a number of times I must admit I don’t quite understand what your position is. Are you saying that the green house effect is not taking into consideration the human factor? If so I would like to submit
Growth in industry, agriculture, and transportation since the Industrial Revolution has produced additional quantities of the natural greenhouse gases plus chlorofluorocarbons and other gases, augmenting the thermal blanket. It is generally accepted that this increase in the quantity of greenhouse gases is trapping more heat and increasing global temperatures, making a process that has been beneficial to life potentially disruptive and harmful. During the 20th cent., the atmospheric temperature rose 1.1°F (0.6°C), and sea level rose several inches. Some projected, longer-term results of global warming include melting of polar ice, with a resulting rise in sea level and coastal flooding; disruption of drinking water supplies dependent on snow melts; profound changes in agriculture due to climate change; extinction of species as ecological niches disappear; more frequent tropical storms; and an increased incidence of tropical diseases.
Among factors that may be contributing to global warming are the burning of coal and petroleum products (sources of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, ozone); deforestation, which increases the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; methane gas released in animal waste; and increased cattle production, which contributes to deforestation, methane production, and use of fossil fuels.
A 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, based on a three-year study, termed global warming unequivocal and said that most of the change was most likely due to human activities.

[Madwabbit23]

Joe - to answer your question directly, they consider Global Warming exactly what it is: A theory, hypothesis, and an idea. They accept grants that are approved by our taxpayers and government to "research" the theory. There is nothing unethical or immoral about it, its just modern science.

[florida joe]

I am just confused over the fact that if we take global warming as the name implies (the warming of the earth) and the average surface temperature of the earth has risen by more than 1 degree Fahrenheit since 1900. It seems to me that this rise is a fact and not a theory or hypostasis. And the changes the earth is going through do to the rise in temp. is also fact not theory.