Phosphate Problem I cant seem to fix

[FishyCurt]

Hello,
Im looking for some ideas of why my phosphates are higher in my tank then in the water going into the tank.
So I have a 75g with 4 fish in it, snowflake, yellow tang that's 2inches, algae blenny, and a lunar wrasse that's 4inches.
ph is 8.0
sal 1.025
phos .82
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate .15
I have a reef octopus 1000bh hob skimmer and a canister filter with rowa phos and carbon in it with filter pads. I clean it every weekend.
I have a 8hr light cycle with a 4 bulb t5 ho
I also have at least 100lb of live rock
I feed rinsed frozen food only, once a day and theres never any left overs.

I have a hair algae problem like no tomorrow, and in just the last couple weeks red slime has made its unwelcome appearance.
I have been doin the vinegar method for 2 months now, and haven't seen a difference, beside my skimmer working overtime.

Im at a loss of what too do with out using a phosphate eliminator.
Can anyone tell me or know why when I use ro/di water at 0 tds isn't stopping algae growth?

 

[snakeblitz33]

Post a picture of the tank. It might be phosphates leaching directly from the rocks. The growth patterns on the rocks can help determine if it's phosphates leaching from the rocks or not.

 

[FishyCurt]

nevermind I figured out how to make the picture smaller

 

[FishyCurt]

 

[bang guy]

I don't think it's coming from the rocks. I thought for sure it would be the rocks until I saw the pictures.

That looks like a symptom of an overstocked tank or an overfed tank.

I do not believe your tank is overstocked.

 

[snakeblitz33]

When you clean your tank, do you stir up detritus and siphon it out during a water change?

I personally don't like canister filters. But, if you maintain it like you stated, I don't see that as a problem.

 

[2014FishKiller]

What are your canister filter and powerhead?

 

[FishyCurt]

I try not to stir any of it up, but I cant get it all. I have went to the extreme of removing all the live rocks and scrubbing them, then do a 30g water change twice in 1 week. but as you can see that didn't do anything
I use a floss filter pad with another different kind on top to catch all the big a little stuff, then I have rowaphos and a pad in the second tray and carbon in the third.
I have 2 hydor 850 powerheads.

So what do you guys suggest I do about this? Do you think chemi clean would do anything?

 

[2014FishKiller]

I believe your powerheads are not strong enough and set it too high, I will move the powerhead lower and try to point it at the rocks from both end, your canister is only reach less than 1/3 of the tank, it should have an extension come with it, use it. . Right now your water flow only on top of tank, it have nothing from the bottom. The way that you set up for your rocks should have few dead spots from the back of the rocks, I will reset your rocks. By the way I am a beginner as well, Most people in here are better than me.

 

[FishyCurt]

I guess that could be possible but, I find that unlikely since where the rocks aren't getting flow are not growing algae, my sand bed and glass gets it the hardest with the algae. But I will try rearranging my rocks and power heads and see if it makes a difference

 

[flower]

Hi,

Do you rinse the frozen food before you feed the fish? All fish food has phosphates, frozen has the least I think, but even a little will eventually build up and cause problems. What you need is either a GFO reactor, algae scrubber or keep macroalgae. Running Phosban or Chemipure in the canister at this point won't help, because it can't keep up once the hair algae has reared it's ugly head.

Adding better water flow will help. However scrubbing the rock won't, if you don't rinse it real good in clear saltwater (never freshwater) after you scrub it, otherwise it just stimulates the hair algae, the spores are just being released to really go crazy.

The stuff on the sand isn't algae, it's cyanobacteria, and it's the result of poor water quality, overfeeding and low water flow. Extra nutrients are settling on the sand and rock in low flow areas where you see the cyano growing.

Last...are you saying you clean your canister filter once a week? That is also a problem, a canister is supposed to run a month before you remove media such as carbon, otherwise you are just wasting it, rinse the pads in saltwater, don't replace them altogether, those pads will last a long, long time...cleaning it too well will keep the tank unbalanced. There is good bacteria colonies growing on the pads, but also little pods and such will set up house in them that will help to "clean" the tank. When you scrub the rocks the way you say, you also are resetting the tank to new status, and new tanks take time to mature and balance out.

If you have the right water flow, you won't have a bunch of detritus to stir up when you do a water change. I always blasted my rocks with a turkey baster just before a water change, if you have good flow, there won't be much on the rock...if it makes a huge cloud of yuck when you blast it, then you have too much junk settling on it, because of low or misdirected water flow, a simple readjustment of the power heads placement will usually fix that.

Don't lose heart, new tanks go through all kinds of algae stages before it settles down, concern yourself doing:

• Regular water changes, and use only RO water.
• Add decorative Macroalgae in the display, it will out compete everything else feeding on the phosphate and nitrates, as it feeds on it to grow.
• Be careful to not overfeed the fish. Rinse the food under running water in a net, to thaw it before you feed it to the fish.
• Adjust the power heads, and leave the rocks alone, scrubbing is the last resort and a huge chore.

 

[FishyCurt]

Hi,

Do you rinse the frozen food before you feed the fish? All fish food has phosphates, frozen has the least I think, but even a little will eventually build up and cause problems. What you need is either a GFO reactor, algae scrubber or keep macroalgae. Running Phosban or Chemipure in the canister at this point won't help, because it can't keep up once the hair algae has reared it's ugly head.

Adding better water flow will help. However scrubbing the rock won't, if you don't rinse it real good in clear saltwater (never freshwater) after you scrub it, otherwise it just stimulates the hair algae, the spores are just being released to really go crazy.

The stuff on the sand isn't algae, it's cyanobacteria, and it's the result of poor water quality, overfeeding and low water flow. Extra nutrients are settling on the sand and rock in low flow areas where you see the cyano growing.

Last...are you saying you clean your canister filter once a week? That is also a problem, a canister is supposed to run a month before you remove media such as carbon, otherwise you are just wasting it, rinse the pads in saltwater, don't replace them altogether, those pads will last a long, long time...cleaning it too well will keep the tank unbalanced. There is good bacteria colonies growing on the pads, but also little pods and such will set up house in them that will help to "clean" the tank. When you scrub the rocks the way you say, you also are resetting the tank to new status, and new tanks take time to mature and balance out.

If you have the right water flow, you won't have a bunch of detritus to stir up when you do a water change. I always blasted my rocks with a turkey baster just before a water change, if you have good flow, there won't be much on the rock...if it makes a huge cloud of yuck when you blast it, then you have too much junk settling on it, because of low or misdirected water flow, a simple readjustment of the power heads placement will usually fix that.

Don't lose heart, new tanks go through all kinds of algae stages before it settles down, concern yourself doing:

• Regular water changes, and use only RO water.
• Add decorative Macroalgae in the display, it will out compete everything else feeding on the phosphate and nitrates, as it feeds on it to grow.
• Be careful to not overfeed the fish. Rinse the food under running water in a net, to thaw it before you feed it to the fish.
• Adjust the power heads, and leave the rocks alone, scrubbing is the last resort and a huge chore.

thank you for your time and info, I thaw all my food in fresh water, and never feed more then what's consumed in a few seconds at a time. I don't know why the red slime showed up since my parameters are all good besides phosphate.
when I cleaned the rocks I did it in new ro/di saltwater outside the tank, I scrubbed them, yes in a bucket, then rinsed it in a different bucket, emptied the bucket an did the next rock, it took forever! But I'm not really seeing the algae growth on the rocks anymore like before.
I have this crappy oolite sand that when the power head gets too close too it, it just blows it everywhere.
when I clean the filter, I only take out the filter pads an rinse them off in new rodi saltwater. I only change the carbon an rowaphos every 3 months... the tanks been running for 1.5 yrs now, In just the last 4 month's it got like this. The only change it has had in the last 4 month was the light.
I wasn't talking about chemi pure, I was asking about chemi clean, it's suppose to clear up red slime an hair algae in a week. Do you know anything about this product?
By the way if you add perfect saltwater into your tank an that's all you use then why is my fowler tank having these issues but my reef tank is not? The only difference is I run chemi blue in my reef and led lights. Everything else is the same? Just curious... cause that's what's confusing me.
thank you.

 

[flower]

Hi, Oh I see...okay, re-examine time....

Like I said, all fish foods have phosphates, and it accumulates over time. When you cleaned your rocks, you kind of reset the tank, like it's already cured but new rock. I used some stuff call Phosbuster (same as what you are talking about, they work the same way), it works, but it wreaked havoc on my skimmer for months. Using chemicals is always the last resort, so if you do it, always be sure to follow the instructions to the letter.

The fact that you have phosphate, and nitrates readings at all means that the numbers are off the roof high...you SHOULD be getting a false negative on those readings because the red slime (cyanobacteria) is feeding on it. The sand isn't your problem, all sand blows around if the power head is aimed to sweep over it too close. You might think about a spray-bar for your canister filter to increase gas exchange, that will also help the water quality, and free the power heads to not have to move the surface water and concentrate on the rocks being kept clear. You could also invest in some microstars or some brittle or serpent stars to keep your rock clean, just in case food is getting down in the rocks and trapped..

I took a dowel stick and attached a plastic ribbon (like what is on a child's bike handles) to one end...then I moved the stick around in the tank. If the ribbon just drops down, it means no flow to that area, it's a dead spot, so adjust the power head. Some areas will have more flow then others, but all areas should have some follow. That's the best way I have found to check for dead spots.

If you do go the chemical route...afterwards I would invest in a GFO reactor, an algae scrubber needs a sump, but maybe a HOB refugium to be able to keep macros, if the fish you have will bother them. Otherwise there are decorative macros that are slow growing, and not so tasty to fish...check out "Golf Coast Ecosystems"

 

[2014FishKiller]

:why is my fowler tank having these issues but my reef tank is not?:

Does any one know the answer? I am having the same problem with my brown algae after I switch Fowler to Reef after the third weeks.

Did you feed your coral? If you did what did you feeding. I did snowflake and flake food for coral.

 

[pegasus]

Lights, and photoperiod, can have a huge impact on algae growth. Lights that are out of spectrum can fuel algae growth, and too long of a photoperiod will contribute to algae growth. Any time you add food to your tank, some of the nutrients get released into the water before the food gets consumed. Scrubbing your rocks killed a lot of the algae, and a lot of the bacteria that lives in the rocks. The decay of these organisms will cause an ammonia spike, which basically results in a new cycle. One thing many people don't realize is that your phosphate measurements are always going to be low. Phosphate is trapped in the rocks and leeches out slowly over time, and much of it is trapped in the algae, also. It takes a long time to rid a tank of phosphate once it has been exposed, and there is always something that is contributing it. I've battled a small outbreak of hair algae for almost a year, and dosing NO2-PO4:X has helped stop the spread of the HA. It's still there because even though my Nitrate levels are low, the Phosphate is still present. I checked for Phosphate yesterday, and it is measuring at .16ppt. I installed a BRS Dual GFO reactor yesterday, so I expect that number to be much lower by next week. I'm hoping for a little-to-no level of Phosphate by then. As far as red slime (cyanobacteria), I have used Chemi-Clean on two occasions. I slightly under dosed, and noticed no ill effects on any of my inverts, corals, or fish. I didn't completely eradicate the cyano, but it's now at a "tolerable" level. It depends on the coral as to what I feed them. Most corals are photosynthetic, so lighting and placement plays a big role in their health. Flow rates are also important. If they have large mouths, I feed them frozen Mysis, with the exception of my giant carpet anemone, which can eat a medium-size table shrimp. If they are filter feeders, I feed a Marine Snow/PhotoPlex mix. I don't feed this excessively, as much of it will not get consumed, even though I target feed. My tank provides a lot of food for the filter feeders in the form of zooplankton, to I don't have to feed them very often. This adds a lot of nutrients to the water column, which in turn contributes to algae growth. There's a fine line between what's enough food, and what's too much food.

 

[flower]

:why is my fowler tank having these issues but my reef tank is not?:

Does any one know the answer? I am having the same problem with my brown algae after I switch Fowler to Reef after the third weeks.

Did you feed your coral? If you did what did you feeding. I did snowflake and flake food for coral.

Hi, snowflake and flake food for corals? Flake food is like the worst type of food for fish to pollute a tank, but corals certainly wouldn't feed on it...so I'm a little confused by that.

No two tanks are the same, even in the same house using the same RO water, as the owner of 3 tanks at once, I can assure you of the truth in that. You just have to do what you already know to do, keep up water changes and do your tests to make sure the parameters are in balance, keep it up, and eventually the tank will look what it's supposed to.

 

[2014FishKiller]

My bad, I mean Marine Snow. Do you think the long period of led light or/and carol food may cost the problem?

 

[flower]

My bad, I mean Marine Snow. Do you think the long period of led light or/and carol food may cost the problem?

Yes, if you have the lights on too long, or overfeeding the coral food, old bulbs that need replacing, and direct natural sunlight are all contributors. That marine snow in the bottle is a waste of your money, try coral frenzy or Kent brand.

 

[2014FishKiller]

Yes, if you have the lights on too long, or overfeeding the coral food, old bulbs that need replacing, and direct natural sunlight are all contributors. That marine snow in the bottle is a waste of your money, try coral frenzy or Kent brand.

I almost get everything that you have listed it except old bulbs. Now I have to block direct sunlight. How long I should set up for Led light, or I should copy over your schedule.

 

[flower]

I almost get everything that you have listed it except old bulbs. Now I have to block direct sunlight. How long I should set up for Led light, or I should copy over your schedule.

How long are you leaving your lights on? 5 to 6 hours should be plenty of time for corals. I used to have mine on for 11 hours, but I had a very light hungry reef, and no algae issues.

If you have direct sunlight hitting the tank, I bet that's nearly the entire reason you are having trouble with algae. You can block the light with blinds, or heavy curtains...I even looked into those portable room partitions. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOTEL-ROOM-PARTITION-ROOM-DIVIDER-PORTABLE-TRAVEL-FOLDING-PRIVACY-SCREEN-/121558412772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d722de4 I found this on eBay