How to quarantine Kole tang

Discussion in 'Fish Disease & Treatment' started by xeanliao, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    Hi, I got a Kole tang 5 days ago. She appears to be a very shy fish, either hiding when she see my shadow or bumping on the glass or chasing her own reflection in the corner. Finally yesterday, she started come out to eat occasionally. She look healthy that is a good relief.

    Still, I am not risky my display tank by all means, I quarantine all new fishes and do preventive cuprimine treatment before release any to display tank. However, I read copper treatment could damage Kole tang.

    What would you do to quarantine this type of tang without using cuprimine? lower dosage, or does it make sense to do preventive hypersalinity quarantine? or just observing she for longer period of time?
     
  2. silverado61

    silverado61 Well-Known Member

    How long do you normally quarantine?
     
  3. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    I follow cupramine instructions that suggests 2 weeks.
     
  4. silverado61

    silverado61 Well-Known Member

    Fish need to be quarantined a minimum of 4 weeks to insure fish health. It can take that long for possible illness or disease to show itself. If Kole Tangs don't react well to copper I would suggest at least 6 weeks to make sure there are no Ich parasites. I've know aquarists to QT up to 12 weeks just to be on the safe side..
     
  5. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    my immediate concern now it not the duration of the qt. I read copper will damage Kole tang this specific tang species. I am very strict on QT prior releasing new fish to DT, and would like to know the proper way to QT/pre-treat Kole tang without killing it.
     
  6. silverado61

    silverado61 Well-Known Member

    That's just it. No treating. Just QT for at least 6 wks.
     
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  7. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    ic, got what you meant now. thanks.
     
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  8. jay0705

    jay0705 Administrator Staff Member

    Research hyposalinty treatment
     
  9. silverado61

    silverado61 Well-Known Member

    I don't think you should use hypo unless there's an actual problem.
     
  10. jay0705

    jay0705 Administrator Staff Member

    While it wouldn't hurt the fish i agree. Also it only treats ich. However during hypo a fish's appetite increases so it can help to get them eating
     
  11. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    Using copper and other meds in the absence of an identifiable disease is always a bad idea. These meds are toxins to both fish and parasites so you don't want to expose your fish to toxic substances needlessly and you are right angels and tangs both tend to have negative responses to such exposure.

    Hyposalinity is your best choice. Link below. A good 30 day observation of your fish in QT where your are closely observing fish at least 2x day to for signs of disease and health issues is good practice. I use a magnifying glass to observe fish. This can give you a rapid heads up to problems that may go unnoticed early-on.

    https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/content/hyposalinity.100
     
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  12. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    My Kole tang seems in trouble now. she has been in a 20-gallon QT since late Dec 2017, no pre-treatment, only quarantine for observations. 2 weeks ago, I added a fame angel to the QT, and the Kole tang got constant bully and showing minor stress signs. Last weekend, I decided to catch the flame angel and put him in the sump of the QT. Perhaps during the catching, that stressed the kole tang too much. The 2nd day, her body color seemed un-evenly faded on several spots under moonlight and since that day, I was not able to get her to eat in front of me anymore. I doubt she is not eating for a week now.

    Her color definitely look not right. Her lip seems a little swollen comparing with last week, but seem not getting worser this week. She would hide immediately as soon as she senses anyone approach to the tank. Her activity level definitely is relatively very low now, but she seems breathing normal.

    Now, I really worry it is marine velvet ...

    She still in the QT with two junior clown fish. I am cycling a 10-gallon HT now, hoping I can treat her with cuprimine if I need to. (will attach some picture soon)

    @beth and anyone ... does this sound like marine velvet, or she just need a little more time to get over the stress? I also have good and bad experience with copper, but I heard hypp doesn't treat velvet, how about TTM? Or, if it is marine velvet, copper becomes my best chance?

    Any suggestions/advices are highly appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  13. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    If the tang had marine velvet (Amyloodinium) it would be dead already. Koles can display the fading and color issues you describe due to poor care. Such as environmental stresses. It is best never to add more than one fish at a time to QT for the very reason that you experienced. New fish need relief from stress before placement in their final home--the display tank. Also, by adding multiple fish you may well end up exposing fish that may not have disease problems to fish that do have diseases and then both require treatment. Please don't do any treatments until we can ID an actual disease. Have you observed any actual spots on the fish?

    What is your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temp, salinity? Do you have a refractometer?

    That a look at the powder dusted fish in this pic. That is amyloodinium. The commentator here describes other illnesses too here, which he is also right about. Can you post some pics. of this fish?



    Look at the top post pictures of the STRESSED fish symptoms.
    Diseased Fish (Pictures)
     
  14. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    image.jpg 6A3C6424-8BC7-4ED3-AE0C-456950837859.jpeg the parameters is not perfect: detectable low ammnoia recently, probably since i added that flame angel i did not worry about the parameters since the observation tank has a 20-gallon sump and has been running almost 8 months with rocks and filterations. it is basically a soft coral only tank when i am not adding new fish.

    glad u ask, i may be overlook the basics. let me do wc today and tomorrow right away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  15. silverado61

    silverado61 Well-Known Member

    If you treat the tank with copper you'll never be able to put corals in there again and you won't be able to reuse the rocks either. Correct me if I'm wrong Beth.
     
  16. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    Ok, you have live rock and coral in a QT? (a sump attached to a QT is still a part of the system). That in itself is a big problem. Have you been doing water changes to get the ammonia down? Is this the same tank that you added copper to?

    This fish has HLLE (Head and Lateral Line Erosion). Please look at this info:
    https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/content/head-and-lateral-line-erosion.105
    Diseased Fish (Pictures)
    http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php


    Water parameters are poor which is contributing greatly to the problem along with the stress caused by the aggressive fish that was in the tank. Any ammonia is a problem in a QT. Can you answer my questions above about: Nitrite, nitrate, pH, temp, salinity? Do you have a refractometer? Also, what are you feeding this fish and how often?
     
  17. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    image.jpg no, this qt is just for observation when i have new fish. i use another 10-gallon tank pvc and 2 hob filters to treat sick ones with medication when i found any fish in qt need to be treated. (i used to use this one to pre-treat any new fish until recent suggestion doing observation first) see attached pic, left side is the QT, right is the HT i just put up last night

    I have 3rd staging tank for after treatment observation after ht prior to putting the treated fish into DT. not sure if i am over doing it, but hard lessons learned twice from past 2 years.

    Do u still think its a problem to use this 20-20 tank sump system for qt? i wanted to give the new fish comfortable env when i am observing only.

    thanks u so much id the hlle. is it the small white hues around her eyes?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  18. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    just did 10g wc, will do another 10 tomorrow and the day after tomorrow.
     
  19. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    QT's should not have live rock, live sand, inverts. However, it seems like you have multiple staging tanks. Honestly, this in itself is stressful because it results in transferring vulnerable fish to new environments. Your best bet is one fish at a time in QT and, when the need arises, treat that one fish in that QT. However, if you wish to keep an observation tank free of meds, that is understandable and your choice. For fish transfer I would suggest not netting the fish but corralling fish into a container or ziplock with water and doing the transfer that way to reduce stress and injury to a fish that is actually already stressed and injured due to a disease process. In other words, do not remove the fish from water as is the usual practice when doing a transfer. Be sure to keep items used for transfers clean and sterile. Both tanks would need to have the same water conditions. Same temp, pH, salinity. This applies to the water in QT and Display as well. Keeping live rock and sand may result in contaminated fish introducing pathogens into the system where these pathogens can find a nice resting place to wait for your next fish which may not even have that disease when it is introduced. In a bare tank that has fake or non-organic objects for the fish, this is much less likely to occur. When I was keeping a reef I used a 20 gal QT. It did have about a cup of LS and a few small pieces of rubble LR. I used a few pieces of fake coral for the fish. It had filters and powerheads. Never had an ammonia problem. You do have to keep the QT cycled when there is no fish in it.

    You haven't provided the previous info I requested twice already.

    I think the problem that you are having, and a lot of hobbyists do have, is that they don't know what they are seeing when they encounter a problem with a fish. Then they jump right in to some kind of treatment, such a copper, without really understanding that copper may treat some diseases, but it certainly is not going to treat something like HLLE. In fact, copper is believed to be a culprit of HLLE in tangs and angels.

    The pits immediately around the yellow circling the eye and the extended flesh erosion that goes beyond that is HLLE. I'm not seeing anything else in the pics you provided.
     
  20. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    I would suggest doing one gal wc 2-3x a day. Massive wc in a QT with a stressed fish will result in additional stress. Use water from your display tank, as long as that water is top notch.
     
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