how to tell if copper has been used on a tank?

oneradtek

Active Member
hey all, so im upgrading to a 75 gallon tank, and this will be a switch over from my 55 gallon Reef setup. I have a buddy that wants to sell me his tank for 150$ with a stand, and its black so i rlaely would like to buy this thing. Heres the catch, not sure if its ever been treated with copper.
is there any way to officially tell if that thing has been touched with copper products other than a visual inspection of the seals? just wondering what you all think here. thanks in advance!
 
M

markeo99

Guest
is it full of water yet get a copper test from salifert or something
if there isnt water in it throw some of the rocks in a bucket with some water
copper could leach out and show up on tests thats what I would try
and if there is no rocks or anything in it clean it up a little copper wont soak into the glass just porous stuff like rock sand sponges ect
 

oneradtek

Active Member
no im just buyign the tank, no substrate or rocks with it. The copper can soak into the tanks seams and leak back out, ive heard and if there is copper in them theyre blue? idk ill have him throw some water in it and let it set for a few days and test the water in there, would that be good?
 
M

markeo99

Guest
not so sure all my reef tanks have had copper in them at one point in time when they were freshwater many moon ago and them seems never turned blue and my coral and snails dont die
 

payton 350

Member
Originally Posted by markeo99
http:///forum/post/2679637
not so sure all my reef tanks have had copper in them at one point in time when they were freshwater many moon ago and them seems never turned blue and my coral and snails dont die
ya know i was thinking about this too.....all of my freshwater tanks at one point had copper in it. If it leaches out as they say it does , then why don't the freshwater snails die off? Are they different than saltwater snails?
 

sepulatian

Moderator
You cannot tell if it ever had copper in it at first. The best thing to do is set it up and run a copper filter like Cuprizorb (I hope I spelled that correctly). Wait awhile then add a couple of hardy inverts like hermits. Slowly work your way up to less hardy inverts. If they all live fine then you should be alright.
 

payton 350

Member
has it ever even been verified that copper absorbs into the silicone sealant? or is this one of those possible myths
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Payton 350
http:///forum/post/2679680
has it ever even been verified that copper absorbs into the silicone sealant? or is this one of those possible myths
It does. Silicone is absorbent. Have you ever used Malachite in a tank? Do you notice how it stains the silicone but not the glass? If a tank was treated with copper, then stripped down to just the tank, it will not have much to leech back out. If it is a larger tank then there will not be much at all because of the dilution from the volume of water. I don't have a specific time line for you. Just don't buy anything expensive until you know that the inverts/coral that you want will live in the tank.
 

stanlalee

Active Member
Myth! I couldn't have put more copper in my 30g before I ever knew a reef tank was possible and never had any issues doing so. Copper adhears to substrates/live rock not silicon seals. Malachite green stains (its used as a dye) but has nothing to do with copper and wont kill sessile inverts at low levels (much less any low enough leached from stained green seals). even considered cautionably reef safe by some.
straight out of seachems FAQ:
A: Our Cupramine is the only copper based remedy of it's kind on the market as this technology is very unique to our company. This copper based remedy is complexed to an organic (amine), hence the name Cupramine. This complex is very stable in water, meaning it is the least likely of all the copper remedies to "stick" to a gravel bed or live rock. I am not aware of any copper that sticks to silicon seals
.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2679671
You cannot tell if it ever had copper in it at first. The best thing to do is set it up and run a copper filter like Cuprizorb (I hope I spelled that correctly). Wait awhile then add a couple of hardy inverts like hermits. Slowly work your way up to less hardy inverts. If they all live fine then you should be alright.
Cuprisorb is a great product; it will change color if its absorbing much copper. Although I'm of the school that thinks the silicone can't absorb enough copper to be dangerous; but admit I could be wrong. I use copper all the time in QT, then use cuprisorb. Within 2 days, no copper shows up on a SeaChem test kit. But, I just used carbon after the copper for years, and used the same QT with no problems.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2679688
It does. Silicone is absorbent. Have you ever used Malachite in a tank? Do you notice how it stains the silicone but not the glass? If a tank was treated with copper, then stripped down to just the tank, it will not have much to leech back out. If it is a larger tank then there will not be much at all because of the dilution from the volume of water. I don't have a specific time line for you. Just don't buy anything expensive until you know that the inverts/coral that you want will live in the tank.

Originally Posted by srfisher17

http:///forum/post/2680204
Cuprisorb is a great product; it will change color if its absorbing much copper. Although I'm of the school that thinks the silicone can't absorb enough copper to be dangerous; but admit I could be wrong. I use copper all the time in QT, then use cuprisorb. Within 2 days, no copper shows up on a SeaChem test kit. But, I just used carbon after the copper for years, and used the same QT with no problems.
Just to couple with these guys, well guy and the lady. I can't IMAGINE that silicone would have absorbed enough Cu to actually harm anything. Just won't happen.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2680368
Just to couple with these guys, well guy and the lady. I can't IMAGINE that silicone would have absorbed enough Cu to actually harm anything. Just won't happen.
It won't release a lot, that is why I said that it isn't much of a concern in a larger aquarium. If it is say, a 12g nano, then there isn't much water to dilute it. Running a copper remover will help to ensure that whatever traces of copper are in there will be removed. If someone is unsure then it is best to start with inexpensive inverts and see how well they do.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2680381
It won't release a lot, that is why I said that it isn't much of a concern in a larger aquarium. If it is say, a 12g nano, then there isn't much water to dilute it. Running a copper remover will help to ensure that whatever traces of copper are in there will be removed. If someone is unsure then it is best to start with inexpensive inverts and see how well they do.
No, I was agreeing. There is no way that silicone can absorb enough copper to harm a system, maybe if you're talking a 5 gallon tank. But I still would doubt it.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
I know some dyes can COLOR silicone; but I'll be if you peeled off a strip, the dye would only be "skin deep", not absorbed. A technicality, but that's what we're talking about.
 

geoj

Active Member
Natural Sea water copper levels 0.003
You will not find a cheep test kit that will read such a low level of copper.
Silicone caulk myth or not, you would need to drop the pH to 6.0 and test or use a color changing absorption resin.
My attempt to reproduce the copper leaching using Cupramine copper.
I have test to .05 Cupramine copper for three weeks, did 50% water change and then add an absorption resin. After three weeks Cupramine copper reading not detectible using Seachem MultiTest or API copper test. Added Peppermint shrimp, Emerald crab, and many pods, they are still alive and going Cupramine copper reading not detectible. In a 25g glass tank w/ CC sub and two pieces LR.
This was only one test! And only seems to confirm Seachem claims.
 

oneradtek

Active Member
so should i offer this guy 200 for the tank and just go for it or should i pass? because i know there hasnt been any copper used in awhile if anything, i just dont wanna get caught with a copper infested tank and have it kill my reef u know??
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
The amount of copper leached out of silicone is very small. I would run a poly filter pad just to make sure it will turn blue it there is any measurable copper present
 
Top