Starting a 10 Gallon Nano Saltwater Tank

[xoxdreamon]

HELP! I have been keeping freshwater tanks for several years but have never attempted a saltwater tank. I am a student so I'm looking to set it up for the lowest cost possible. I have searched a few things and know basic terms but no specifics (especially when it comes to those things on live rocks..... mushrooms? polyps? those thinggys..... i am totally lost there). I need help with which equipement is good and how to do readings. I would like a little clean-up crew of hermit crabs and snails (which ones) and maybe one fish or even a pair. Something colourful. I love vibrant colours on the layout but i know that usually comes with having brighter, more expensive lighting or harder to care for species of "things". I preferably want to try a FOWLR tank so i can use the live rock/sand to help the water.
If someone could help me pick out equipement and other specific things that would be great. I live nearest to a fish store which supplies live rock and a few small marine fish and equipement. Its a pretty good place. Around me in also a petsmart which has only freshwater stuff, another fish store with a few marine things, and about a 30 minute drive away is a Big Als which I've been to once and it looks great, but is sort of far away...
The stuff i currently have are the 10 glass gallon tank, the heavy-duty stand, and a water heater ( kinda like the one in the middle - http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/choosing-aquarium-equipment-17.jpg ) and I've only used it for freshwater.... its old but works well. I have a Topfin hang-on-the-back filter but i doubt that will work for saltwater...
Heres just a picture of a layout i kind of like for the rock structure ( http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7185/dayfivenew.jpg ) with lots of hiding places, caves, and tunnels..... i kind of want to get a pair of Firefish which need to hide somewhere when stressed apparently...... unless they jump too much then maybe I'll just get Nemo or a Clownfish pair.
Anyway, if anyone can help me out that would be awesome.

One more thing, I have read about quarantine tanks and i know they help, but i do not have to space or money to do so. I also do not like to use chemicals to solve things unless absolutely necessary. I prefer to fix things naturally. Also i would like to get most things that would be reef safe (hermits, fish, etc.) that i can use in my future 210 gallon reef tank in like, 10 years or so.... that would be great!
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!!!
PS: something I found that would be good to start with.....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/resun-waver-2000-newest-waver-maker-pump-3w-nano-tank-/400265723445?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d31b23e35#ht_4213wt_1396

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxDreamOn http:///t/389776/starting-a-10-gallon-nano-saltwater-tank#post_3446951
HELP! I have been keeping freshwater tanks for several years but have never attempted a saltwater tank. I am a student so I'm looking to set it up for the lowest cost possible first problem, salt water is not cheep. I have searched a few things and know basic terms but no specifics (especially when it comes to those things on live rocks..... mushrooms? polyps? those thinggys..... soft corals i am totally lost there). I need help with which equipement is good and how to do readings buy a basic salt water test kits API ammonia; nitrate; PH and calcium. I would like a little clean-up crew of hermit crabs and snails either are good but not both together (crabs will eat your snails)(which ones) and maybe one fish or even a pair. Something colourful clowns (same type); fire fish; cardinals, etc . I love vibrant colours on the layout but i know that usually comes with having brighter, more expensive lighting or harder to care for species of "things". I preferably want to try a FOWLR tank so i can use the live rock/sand to help the water.
If someone could help me pick out equipement and other specific things that would be great. I live nearest to a fish store which supplies live rock and a few small marine fish and equipement. Its a pretty good place. Around me in also a petsmart not the best place to buy fish (ick infested) which has only freshwater stuff, another fish store with a few marine things, and about a 30 minute drive away is a Big Als which I've been to once and it looks great, but is sort of far away...
The stuff i currently have are the 10 glass gallon tank, the heavy-duty stand, and a water heater ( kinda like the one in the middle - http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/choosing-aquarium-equipment-17.jpg ) and I've only used it for freshwater.... its old but works well. I have a Topfin hang-on-the-back filter but i doubt that will work for saltwater... you'll also need a hydrometer, I prefer refractor meter (needed fro preforming Hypo) and 1 small power head. If you add corals you'll need a small protein skimmer.
Heres just a picture of a layout i kind of like for the rock structure ( http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7185/dayfivenew.jpg ) with lots of hiding places, caves, and tunnels..... i kind of want to get a pair of Firefish which need to hide somewhere when stressed apparently...... unless they jump too much then maybe I'll just get Nemo or a Clownfish pair.
Anyway, if anyone can help me out that would be awesome.

One more thing, I have read about quarantine tanks and i know they help, but i do not have to space or money to do so. I also do not like to use chemicals to solve things unless absolutely necessary. I prefer to fix things naturally. Also i would like to get most things that would be reef safe (hermits, fish, etc.) that i can use in my future 210 gallon reef tank in like, 10 years or so.... that would be great!
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!!!
This is an idea for starting your tank. I would get a plastic container about a 10gal capacity, add sand and rock to it cycle it with power head and heater. Set up your glass 10 gal with hang on filter (nothing in it but bio material) and heater (good to have a spare heater on hand), QT the fish while cycling sand and LR. You'll need to get a another container fro pre mixing salt water with a air pump, this material will be needed anyways for water changes in future. During QT always have a batch ready, also get a bottle of prime or amquel +. Start the cycling first (time between 2 to 3 months varies), then start QT (time between 3 to 6 weeks). Once fish is safe from harm add sand and LR to DT (this only can happen this way if you do not use copper or other meds that will kill coral and inverts).
Good Luck, keep asking questions.

PS: something I found that would be good to start with.....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/resun-waver-2000-newest-waver-maker-pump-3w-nano-tank-/400265723445?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d31b23e35#ht_4213wt_1396

 

[snakeblitz33]

Welcome to the forums!
As mentioned, saltwater is not cheap if it is done right.
Pick a fish store that doesn't have diseases or dead fish frequently in their tanks.
Know your budget and don't start your tank until you have the proper equipment.
For a small tank like that, you can use your filter you have. You can even add an air powered protein skimmer in the back of it, along with a heater to hide the equipment. You will need a powerhead. I suggest a koralia 440 nano. To save money, you could go barebottom and paint the underneath of the tank white or black with some cheap $1 spray paint.
You could get 5 pounds base rock and 5 pounds live rock to Try to save a little money. You can cut the rock, drill it and zip tie it in the positions you want.
I highly suggest getting percula clownfish instead of ocellaris because of their size.
Plan on buying a bucket of salt and doing 50% water changes at least twice a month.
Only use RO/di water to top off your tank with and for water changes. In such a small tank without a sump, I highly suggest getting a refractometer to measure the salt content instead of a hydrometer. It's because you really have to stay on top of the salt content and be very accurate with it in such a small system.
If you do decide to get into coral (which if you have any success, you will want to) look into getting a par38 led bulb. It's relatively cheap and will let you be able to keep many different types of coral. It also only needs a regular socket lamp to function.
Keep reading and researching!

 

[saxman]

Other than the fact that most folks here are reefers and go for "max flow", I'm not QUITE sure why in a 10 gal FOWLR setup peeps are recommending a PH (powerhead)...in a tank that small, you really shouldn't have any flow issues, even with a HOB filter. I'd hold off on the PH for sure, esp. since you can always add it later. To be honest, none of our 12 FOWLR setups have a single powerhead in them, be the tank large or small.
I recommend keeping it simple...get yourself a HOB power filter rated for 20 gals minimum. If you need a heater, get a good one (Eheim-Jaeger is one of them). For FO, you can simply run NO fluorescent lighting. That's pretty much your equipment list for the tank-proper.
LR (roughly 10 lbs) and sand (I like about 1"-1.5" of #3 or #1 grade aragonite).
You'll want a 5 gal bucket to mix your water in (mark it "AQUARIUM ONLY"), and a bubbler or small PH to mix and aerate the water overnight for WCs (water changes). A refractometer is definitely the way to go over a swing-arm hydrometer. You'll want test kits for ammonia, nitrate, and pH as a minimum, or have a LFS that will test your water for free...I do recommend having your own test kit. You'll also want a bottle of water conditioner (Amquel Plus or Ultimate) if you use tap water in your tank.
That will get you up and running.
JM .02...

 

[xoxdreamon]

Thanks SOOO much to everyone who commented in this thread. I will take everything into consideration and of course, look into what has been said. Of course I have to do more research but this has definitely made this nano seem a lot less complicating. I look forward to starting it someday soon. THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE TIPS AND INFO!!!!!

 

[snakeblitz33]

Your welcome! Come back soon and stay around awhile!

 

[xoxdreamon]

Alrighty, I was looking into substrates for the nano and then i thought of a few questions.... I know i want sand, preferably a nice white sand. As mentioned by Saxman, it might be the easiest (and cheapest) to do just a Fish Only tank... I still love the idea of having a FOWLR tank cuz the idea of having live rock is awesome but i might be able to skip it for now...
I was just wondering if I should be getting Aragonite sand for the FO setup, or could i just buy any sand from a hardware store???? For example, I got a 50 pound bag of tan-colour playsand for $6 for my 30 gallon planted tank. SUPER CHEAP!!! I filled my tank with 2-5 inches and even hand an extra few handfuls afterwards. My other option was pool filter sand which is larger pieces of sand, which was i think $15 for 50 pounds...? I still need to find white sand though........... Anyway, what do you think???

And what about a cleaner shrimp and snails..? Are hermits better algae cleaners? What about a starfish? What's best?
Also where can I find, cheap but good salt? What brands should I look for or stay away from???
OH and I really hope its OK that I just keep asking you guys questions as I go. I'm learning a lot, THANKS!

 

[snakeblitz33]

Only use calcium carbonate based sand like dry aragonite sold specifically for marine aquariums. Other types of sand have too many silicates which cause massive diatom blooms (algae). Silicate based sand has a different shape of grain than caco2 sand and can harm some types of invertebrates. A small 10 pound bag of live sand or dry sand for aquariums is around $8-$10. Don't take shortcuts.
For a fish only system, the fish need somewhere to hide, so get some decoration of some sort. One cleaner shrimp would be ok for your tank. Either pick hermits or snails, not both. Hermits will eat your snails eventually. Snails are better herbivores, but you won't have a problem with algae for the most part. Hermits are for leftover food.
Instant ocean salt is both good and cheap for a fish only tank. Stay away from big box store brands like ***** or Petsmart.
I honestly don't see your system doing well without live rock. Without the filtration capacity and organisms that come on the live rock, your tank may never be stable and might eventually crash. But that's just my opinion.

 

[mr. limpid]

+ one on everything Snake said. DO NOT use the sand from hardware stores, only sand sold at petshops (for salt water use). They sell dry sand as well as live sand, dry sand is a little cheaper. The difference is live sand has already established active bacteria in it. Dry sand in time will turn into live sand. As for live rock you can do the same thing buy 1 piece of live rock and the rest dry rock, in time the dry will become live.

 

[snakeblitz33]

This hobby is not for the faint of wallet.
Spend money on quality and spend it when you have to.

 

[xoxdreamon]

OK....... so i should do the FOWLR set-up? What kinda of lighting/fitration would i need for that?
And Seth, thanks for your opinion, i sort of knew the live rock will help the filtration. I owned freshwater tanks with plastic plants for years with not much success, but now adding plants has helped a lot. I'm guessing its kind of the same... Oh and would a 10 pound bag of live sand be enough to cover the base of my ten gal (20"x10") with a couple inches? TIA

 

[snakeblitz33]

I've always gone with a rule of thumb for one pound of sand per gallon of water volume. It's always worked for me...
Until recently - I have gone barebottom and will never go back.

 

[mr. limpid]

This is a 10gal. correct? As for light fish only tanks real do not need any special lighting. On my 135 FOWLR I'm use a T8 shop light using sylvania sky light bulbs, as for filtration a hang on the back will work you may want to up grade to 20gal filter and I would loosely stuff the compartment with plastic scrub pads, they make good bio material.

 

[xoxdreamon]

Yes, it is a 10 gallon. I can get a 20 gal filter if the 10 is no problem. But where would I find "plastic scrub pads"? Would I still need a Protein Skimmer?
I've decided I FOR SURE want to do the FOWLR setup. I bought a 7" waterproof stick-on LED light that i can stick to the glass inside the tank near the top. I haven't got it yet but I don't know if this and my 18" natural daylight bulb (maybe 15-25 watts..?) will be enough for live rock. I can easily get another LED light for the other side of the tank......
So far, I have not gone out to buy ANYTHING else yet. I was wondering what I should get first or if i should get it ALL in one or two trips. I'll attach a picture of what I have so far....

I cleaned out the tank today with nothing but water, sea salt, and a scrub brush. I added water from my tap because i don't wish to get an RO unit for this tank. I have the API 5 in 1 test strips which i had already. My well water alone has - GH - 0ppm, KH - 240ppm, pH of 6.0, and 0 nitrites and nitrates. The temperature right now is 79'F. Here's just a pic of the reading chart for the API test kit (ignore the black markings).

I was wondering, what should I jump start the cycling with? I have not yet put salt in.
THANKS again for all your help so far.
PS. My budget is probably somewhere around $150. If i can spend less than that that would be great! I can go over a bit but I want to try to keep the cost relatively low. THANKS!

 

[xoxdreamon]

Just a little update... bubbles are almost gone AND still haven't started cycling....... FIRST OFF, I bought that little stick-on light I mentioned before. I bought some Dry Rock (i trust ebay, its very handy - bought most of my freshwater plants from it), I got a package of about 5 pounds. The item is - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300634047391?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_571wt_1163
i think its great.... i can add live rock from my LFS later on to get this stuff going... (should I get LIVE ROCK to jump start the cycle??????)
I found a nano powerhead on ebay for about $30 - Koralia Nano Controllable 260 gallons..... I might get it LATER ON if i find that the flow isn't enough, although i do have a pretty strong filter...) HERE - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Koralia-Aquarium-Pumps-Hydor-All-versions-types-/230595094369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item7b680852a2#ht_1838wt_1139
ALSOOOOOO..... I bought a refractometer for about 20 bucks on ebay. It looks great, brand new...... Of course, I have to wait a week or two for it to arrive before I can add any salt... Here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RHS-10ATC-Salinity-Refractometer-0-10-ATC-Aquarium-Saltwater-BLUE-RUBBER-STRIP-/300618824732?pt=BI_Cellular_Optical_Television_Test_Equipment&hash=item45fe473c1c#ht_2263wt_1163
So look at those if you wish and I'll check in sometime tomorrow I am probably going to go buy a 15lb bag of Aragonite on sale at Petsmart and a big ol' empty BUCKET (5 gallons). Here's the link for the sand - http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147301 Also while at Petsmart, I will see if they have salt. Any quick recommendations?
AHH

I'm so excited....... and DEFINITELY glad I'm doing this.
Just keep track - I've spent around $70 (with shipping) so far on 5 pounds of dry rock, the extra light and the refractometer.

I think that's VERY good so far.
Anyways,
HAPPY FISH KEEPING!

 

[xoxdreamon]

HEHE another post from me 'cause I'm bored and like making you guys read.
I just wanted to thank everyone for helping me learn a lot more about how to start this tank. I joined this site the day of my first post in this thread and have enjoyed every minute of it. I was looking around at other saltwater forums but chose this one because it looked pretty good. I was right! Thanks again everyone!!! Now lets hope all this stuff runs smoothly!

FINGERS CROSSED!!!

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxDreamOn http:///t/389776/starting-a-10-gallon-nano-saltwater-tank#post_3447953
Just a little update... bubbles are almost gone AND still haven't started cycling....... FIRST OFF, I bought that little stick-on light I mentioned before. I bought some Dry Rock (i trust ebay, its very handy - bought most of my freshwater plants from it), I got a package of about 5 pounds. The item is - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300634047391?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_571wt_1163
i think its great.... i can add live rock from my LFS later on to get this stuff going... (should I get LIVE ROCK to jump start the cycle??????)
Yes
I found a nano powerhead on ebay for about $30 - Koralia Nano Controllable 260 gallons..... I might get it LATER ON if i find that the flow isn't enough, although i do have a pretty strong filter...) HERE - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Koralia-Aquarium-Pumps-Hydor-All-versions-types-/230595094369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item7b680852a2#ht_1838wt_1139
ALSOOOOOO..... I bought a refractometer for about 20 bucks on ebay. It looks great, brand new...... Of course, I have to wait a week or two for it to arrive before I can add any salt... Here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RHS-10ATC-Salinity-Refractometer-0-10-ATC-Aquarium-Saltwater-BLUE-RUBBER-STRIP-/300618824732?pt=BI_Cellular_Optical_Television_Test_Equipment&hash=item45fe473c1c#ht_2263wt_1163
So look at those if you wish and I'll check in sometime tomorrow I am probably going to go buy a 15lb bag of Aragonite on sale at Petsmart and a big ol' empty BUCKET (5 gallons). Here's the link for the sand - http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147301 Also while at Petsmart, I will see if they have salt. Any quick recommendations?
AHH

I'm so excited....... and DEFINITELY glad I'm doing this.
Just keep track - I've spent around $70 (with shipping) so far on 5 pounds of dry rock, the extra light and the refractometer.

I think that's VERY good so far.
Anyways,
HAPPY FISH KEEPING!

Add a raw shrimp in a nyon bag (women hose ) for a couple of days, this will be the food for the bacteria to grow. It best to have all your rock and sand in the tank while you are cycling. The hole process takes any where from 8 to 12 weeks, then you can add one fish. Time to make a wish list, post it and people will give you feed back.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxDreamOn http:///t/389776/starting-a-10-gallon-nano-saltwater-tank#post_3447975
HEHE another post from me 'cause I'm bored and like making you guys read.
I just wanted to thank everyone for helping me learn a lot more about how to start this tank. I joined this site the day of my first post in this thread and have enjoyed every minute of it. I was looking around at other saltwater forums but chose this one because it looked pretty good. I was right! Thanks again everyone!!! Now lets hope all this stuff runs smoothly!

FINGERS CROSSED!!!
You are welcome, ever one here are hear to help and ever one has have different experiences. So read all the advise given and then decided how you want your tank to be run. good luck.
One word of advice, fish you get will pro bally have some form of problem, like ick, worms or others. It is wise to have a QT tank, I know you only have a 10 gal display, but you do not want to treat a sick fish in your DT.

 

[xoxdreamon]

I'm still confused as to where I can get "plastic scrub pads"? Would I still need a Protein Skimmer? I can get a nano one from ebay for around $20...?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/260676104030?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_2475wt_1163
Do i need it though?
Basically the filtration is what I need help with right now.................. I can get this along with my HOB then I wont need a powerhead ($30 and up) - $3+ (bidding item) filter : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180790874721?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_6674wt_1396

 

[xoxdreamon]

Ok a wish list of the fish I'm looking at is probably a Percula or Ocellaris Clownfish as they are pretty hardy. Which one is better for this tank??? The colouring I like is with small-medium thick black lines with the bright orange, like Nemo!!! I REALLY want a clownfish because I have always wanted to own Nemo.

I want to get a couple snails to clean the tank if they are pretty good at it. Any other suggestions for TANK cleaners? (Shrimp kind of creep me out, and don't the saltwater ones just clean the FISH? I've had freshwater snails before - love the big ones.)
I also was looking at Firefish although these are not my favourite. I'm also worried about how people say they are good jumpers... Don't reeeaaaally want these but they are cool.
I don't know if there's anything else I would like that works in a 10 gallon. I want something hardy that is NOT too shy, and swims in the middle to top level of the tank. The cleaners will probably be along the bottom so I want something to fill the upper gap. Ideas??? I reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaally like the clowfish so is it possible for me to get a pair? Would they be happier in a pair rather than alone??? TIA
PS: I bought the aragonite today ($20 with taxes) and put it into the tank. I'll post a picture when the water clears a bit It looks great though. Awesome sand... I also bought a bag of instant ocean salt, 15.41 pounds - about $20. I have a new bucket sitting around, its 4 gallons. I'm going to use that for water mixes.
Im still adding it up, and so far I've spent $130 [on 5lbs of dry rock (shipping), 4lbs of live rock (shipping), 15lbs of salt, 15lbs of sand, refractometer (shipping), and light (shipping)].
I still have to buy; powerhead (~ $25), skimmer (~ $50), plastic scrub pads, fish, food, and a ONE POUND of live rock from my LFS to start the cycle.....

Anyway ttfn!!!