Starting a new tank with an old tank

puffpuffergive

New Member
I want to start a 29 gallon. My buddy Is getting rid of his 40 gallon. Can I just place his sand and live rock and possibly some water and would that be legitimate? Let me know thanks
 

btldreef

Moderator
I'm not sure I understand the question here. Do you want to take his sand and live rock and place in your tank? Is your tank already established or is it a new tank with nothing in it?
 

btldreef

Moderator
You can do that. The water won't make a difference. You're still going to need to cycle your tank.
 

blooddogg757

New Member
To my understanding, cycling refers to the nitrogen cycle. Fish produce ammonia in their waste, and this is toxic to them. In an aquarium, bacteria will convert the ammonia to nitrite (also toxic), then another group of bacteria convert the nitrite to nitrate, which is safe in moderate amounts. "Cycling", as it's used in fishkeeping is the period (3-6 weeks usually) when the bacteria is becoming established in a new tank, or one where the bacteria have been killed (by chlorine, antibiotics, or other chemicals).
I hope this helps you better understand what cycling is exactly, and why putting his stuff in your tank will not work. Good Luck and have fun with the hobby!
 

btldreef

Moderator
It absolutely will work. I've done it. It's actually how I've started all my tanks, with rock and sand from other tanks. It definitely helps jump start the cycle. That being said, you still need to test for a few weeks before adding any animals.
Sand and rock that you add to a new tank doesn't have to be dead, it doesn't have to be cured, it doesn't have to be uncured, you just need to know what you're dealing with when you start. When using cured rock and live sand (from an established reef, not the bagged crap they claim is live sand at the LFS), you usually don't need to add a raw shrimp, etc to jump start the cycling process.
 

puffpuffergive

New Member
So then what should i do exactly.... Just go to his house with some five gallon buckets, grab his rock and sand, make sure they are covered with his saltwater, bring it home, put the rocks in my empty aquarium, then the sand, any water that came along with it?
Then should i just fill it the rest of the way up with RO water that i've added sea salt and marine buffer to?
i still need to look at how dirty everything is in his tank... but he's willing to give me his aquarium accessories too..
if they are usable can i just clean em off and stick em in my tank?
 

btldreef

Moderator
Your tank is going to have to cycle regardless, so even if they're a little dirty or they're in the air for a few minutes, they're usable. Just don't grab rocks with a ton of aiptasia or hair algae all over it.
For the sand, throw it in buckets with some water over it, again, tank needs to cycle, so if there is some die off in the sand, it's not a big deal.
Add rocks, then sand, then water (freshly made salt water) to your tank and let the process begin. Marine buffer shouldn't be needed.
 

puffpuffergive

New Member
The guy at the LFS said the RO water needs marine buffer (powdered or liquid) to get to the proper pH... is that incorrect?
So you're saying i should just get some Instant Ocean SeaSalt, mix it with my water, and dump that in there with any sand/rock that i acquire from my buddy's teardown?
 

puffpuffergive

New Member
And as far as aiptasia and hair algae... will a little bit be ok? you said not to grab rocks with too much, but is a little fine?
I haven't seen his tank in almost a year so i don't know what the liverock looks like yet....
and as far as sand... is there anything that could be awry with his sand that i should look out for?
thanks again.
 

btldreef

Moderator
You really don't want any aiptasia. They spread like wild fire and I really encourage you to not use pieces that have any without killing them first (smear kalkwasser paste over them, inject aiptasia-x, etc). Scrub any hair algae off in a bucket before putting those pieces in your tank, but avoid pieces that are covered with it.
With the sand there isn't too much to worry about. If it's not great, over time it will become live again. If it's covered in algae, obviously avoid it.
RO does not need a buffer, your LFS is trying to make money. Synthetic sea salts, such as Instant Ocean, already contain the buffer.
 

puffpuffergive

New Member
Good news!
I Just checked out his 'setup' and the rocks look good, no wierd algae or anything. theres actually a starfish and some crabs that are toughing it out too. So... the sand.. Looks good, i dont know what kind it is or where he got it, i believe there might have been deaths of fish that werent' properly cleaned up...
So my question: could there be any really bad bacteria or anything in the sand that might cause something to go badly?
So to start my tank should i just mix up my saltwater and pour it in my tank...
Then add the live rock after i transport it...
Turn on the filter i got from him (after it's cleaned)...
then wait?
What about the little crab dude and starfish... should i try to transport them with the live rock or will that be a futile attempt.?
I dont know anyone else with a saltwater set up in MN Metro area that would be able to foster them....
do you think a LFS would take them?...
and BTLDReef, thanks for all your help, these questions are primarily focused towards you... i think i trust you as much as i could possibly trust someone virtually.
 

puffpuffergive

New Member
Ah, and also..
To cycle the tank will i need the lights? i Haven't gotten them yet but plan to soon...
Also i've heard you dont need a protien skimmer right away. was planning on getting the BAKPAK2... What are your thoughts..?
 

btldreef

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by puffpuffergive http:///forum/thread/385001/starting-a-new-tank-with-an-old-tank#post_3375051
Good news!
I Just checked out his 'setup' and the rocks look good, no wierd algae or anything. theres actually a starfish and some crabs that are toughing it out too. So... the sand.. Looks good, i dont know what kind it is or where he got it, i believe there might have been deaths of fish that werent' properly cleaned up...
What would lead you to believe that there were fish deaths that weren't properly cleaned up? Sounds odd to me.
So my question: could there be any really bad bacteria or anything in the sand that might cause something to go badly?
If you're at all questioning the sand, and it sounds like you are there are three different ways you can go about it:
1) Don't use it and buy bagged sand from the LFS (CaribSea's wet bagged "live" sand is one of the better ones that I've found, it's still not really live, but I've had better results using this over the dry bagged sand)
2) Take your friends sand and rinse it with some salt water, you can actually use his tank water to do this so you don't waste more of your own salt mix and RO.
3) Just use it as is and if you're really unhappy with it, go to your LFS and buy a cup or two of live sand from their reef tank, or find a hobbyist in the area to buy a cup or two from to seed your sand.
So to start my tank should i just mix up my saltwater and pour it in my tank... Make a batch of saltwater in a bucket and let it sit overnight. You don't have any critters going in this tank right away, so it really doesn't matter whether or not you let it sit, but it's a good habit to start off with. Saltwater should really sit for 24 hours before being added to an aquarium.

Then add the live rock after i transport it...
Turn on the filter i got from him (after it's cleaned)...
then wait?
Add the rock, add the sand, add saltwater. Hook up the filter and start running it and let the tank cycle.

What about the little crab dude and starfish... should i try to transport them with the live rock or will that be a futile attempt.? They're probably die. Trade them for credit to your LFS.

I dont know anyone else with a saltwater set up in MN Metro area that would be able to foster them.... try here: http://www.tcmas.org/ or www.frozenocean.org or try to find out about the Greater Minnesota Reef Society. Ask your LFS, they probably know.

do you think a LFS would take them?... Possibly.

>
and BTLDReef, thanks for all your help, these questions are primarily focused towards you... i think i trust you as much as i could possibly trust someone virtually. Thanks. Glad that I can help.
When all is said and done, you still need to let the tank to cycle. Sometimes the ammonia does not spike as high, especially when using a filter, live rock and live sand all from an established system. Basically what you're doing is using the same biological filter and just decreasing the amount of water it needs to filter. Whenever I have done the method that you're about to do, I've barely seen an ammonia spike compared to when a tank is cycled with a raw shrimp or ghost feedings or *shudder* with damsels. To be safe, monitor all water parameters for at least 4 weeks before adding critters. You could hold onto the crab in a small container with saltwater that you do a partial water change on and use the crab as your "tester" at two- three weeks, but that's up to you.
 

btldreef

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by puffpuffergive http:///forum/thread/385001/starting-a-new-tank-with-an-old-tank#post_3375057
Ah, and also..
To cycle the tank will i need the lights? i Haven't gotten them yet but plan to soon...
Also i've heard you dont need a protien skimmer right away. was planning on getting the BAKPAK2... What are your thoughts..?
You do not need lights. If the rock has coralline algae on it (the good purple and sometimes green/teal stuff) you might loose some of that without the lights, but it will come back.
I've never used that specific brand, but I've heard good things about it. No, you don't need a skimmer right away.
 

1guydude

Well-Known Member
cpr bakpak is a not so bad skimmer. I purchased mine from a cat loving member here online and have had great results after breaking it in and tuning it. Dont buy anything cheap in this hobby as youll most likely get wat you pay for. For instance my 1st skimmer was $40 off an auction website and was a complete waste of time! I paid a $100 for the cprbakpak with internal bubble trap and it was WELL worth it...
p.s. good luck and have fun!
 
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