Time to upgrade

[Jesterrace]

After repeated issues with aggression from adding new fish in my tank, I have decided it's time to upgrade from my 36 gallon. I have attempted to add a Flame Angel, Fairy Wrasse, Captive Bred Occ Clown (not at the same time, I would try and remove one before adding another). I don't know for sure what size exactly (as I will be purchasing a complete used setup to save $) but I am shooting for something in the 75-90 gallon range. As such I will be looking for stock for the new tank. I will also be purchasing some pre-cycled rock to avoid the cycling process with the additional rock. Here is what I am transferring from my current tank and what I am considering on adding to the new tank:

Current stock to be added:

Diamond Watchman Goby
Melanurus Wrasse
Cleaner Shrimp
Assorted Snails and Hermit Crabs

Fish I am looking at adding:

Grey Head Wrasse or Blue Headed Wrasse (The Blue Head is a long shot since I have heard they tend to pick on anything smaller than them)
One of the following Tangs: Kole Yellow Eye Tang, Bristletooth Komini Tang
One of the following Dwarf Angels: Coral Beauty, Red Stripe, Halfback, Multicolor

Any recommendations one way or the other? I do have about 3 soft tentacled corals that will be going in the tank, which will be a factor with the Dwarf Angel, although honestly I am more concerned with aggression towards tankmates than anything else.

 

[Jesterrace]

No recommendations?

 

[lmforbis]

I’d go as big as you can get. Both the 90 and 75 are at the lower limit for a kole or tomini tang, both beautiful fish.
Dwarf angle shouldn’t be an issue. You understand the risk to coral. Some eat it some don’t. Some suddenly decide years later they love it. I have a flame I’ve hade well over 2 years who has never been aggressive nor has it ever eaten coral. Of course I haven’t added any fish since Feb 2015 so who knows. I am only familiar with the coral beauty. The others I haven’t owned. I do really like the red stripe though.
I haven’t had a lot of wrasses just a mckoskers who jumped out of my new tank. He was a beautiful fish. I have seen hundreds while diving in the Caribbean and they are truly beautiful fish.

As far as transferring I’d clean the new tank thoroughly. Your existing rock is maintaining your current stock just fine so you don’t really need more live rock. Dry rock you’ve cleaned and soaked for a couple weeks will become live and costs a fraction of live. I would get all new sand. You can go live but I don’t think it is necessary. In my most recent upgrade I did use live only because the type I wanted (color and grain size) only came in live. You can add a couple cups of your current sand to seed the organisms.
I’d let things settle a month or so before adding anything new as far as fish go. Then to it slowly. I can’t stress enough the importance of proper quarantine procedures.

Over all it shouldn’t be too hard since you are going up in size.

 

[silverado61]

Just to add to what Imforbis said, any time you start up a new/used tank, it's going to go through a cycle. It's unavoidable. There's really no such thing as pre-cycled rock. Any time you move it from one system to another you expose it to air, and then you put it in a tank with different water conditions (water quality, temperature, salinity) things die on the rock and the cycle starts over. Even if it's a mini cycle, it's still a cycle so you should still test the water to monitor it for a few weeks till it's complete.

Just a thought.

 

[Jesterrace]

Just to add to what Imforbis said, any time you start up a new/used tank, it's going to go through a cycle. It's unavoidable. There's really no such thing as pre-cycled rock. Any time you move it from one system to another you expose it to air, and then you put it in a tank with different water conditions (water quality, temperature, salinity) things die on the rock and the cycle starts over. Even if it's a mini cycle, it's still a cycle so you should still test the water to monitor it for a few weeks till it's complete.

Just a thought.

The plan was to add the 40lbs from my 36 with the existing water from my tank directly to the new tank, and then add premix RO with the same salinity from my LFS (I buy my water from them). Then add other live rock or dry rock at a later date,

 

[lmforbis]

Personally I think you’ll be fine. Your bio load is small. You will be moving your rocks quickly so minimal die off. I’d suggest having a tub or big bucket of salt water, it can be from previous couple water changes, to swish the rocks around in to get the crud off of them. That will slow the bacteria to stay but will clean them a bit.
I’d prepare to use mostly new water. As you start to pull things out you will stir all kinds of crap up the water will get nasty fast and you don’t want to add that back into the tank. The bacteria you need are on the surfaces. Not much in the water. I’ve moved tanks and upgraded many times over the last 20 years. I’ve never had a problem as long as I go slow and plan everything well. The fish have always done well.

 

[Jesterrace]

Personally I think you’ll be fine. Your bio load is small. You will be moving your rocks quickly so minimal die off. I’d suggest having a tub or big bucket of salt water, it can be from previous couple water changes, to swish the rocks around in to get the crud off of them. That will slow the bacteria to stay but will clean them a bit.
I’d prepare to use mostly new water. As you start to pull things out you will stir all kinds of crap up the water will get nasty fast and you don’t want to add that back into the tank. The bacteria you need are on the surfaces. Not much in the water. I’ve moved tanks and upgraded many times over the last 20 years. I’ve never had a problem as long as I go slow and plan everything well. The fish have always done well.

The plan is to transfer them to a 30 gallon garbage can with the existing water or stored premix from jugs and then transferring the couple of fish crabs and shrimp to a bucket and move the old tank out of the way and then set up the new tank. I agree that provided the rocks don't spend much time out of the water that I shouldn't see a significant die off. I have technically pulled most of my rocks out into a saltwater bucket once before (while searching for a dead crab that got wedged in a rock fall and it didn't do anything to the rock or cause any significant cycling to occur. Nothing died as a result of it and the water tested normal.

 

[Jesterrace]

Okay, I managed to snag a 90 gallon and it's currently going through a vinegar water cycle to sanitize it. Obviously I have a long way to go and many steps left but at least I am finally getting things going and unlike last time, I still get to enjoy my current 36 gallon setup while I wait. So it does make it easier.

 

[Jesterrace]

Okay, so here is an update: The used tank turned out to be super scratched up. So, I turned it over to my LFS and they sold it on the cheap to someone else. The stand, 29 gallon sump, skimmer, return pump, etc. were all in good shape so I got them cleaned out and ordered a 90 gallon tank with a corner overflow. I got it all transferred and up and running about a week ago. I did lose a couple of snails in the process, but the remaining snails, crabs and more importantly cleaner shrimp, wrasse and goby seem to be doing fine. I have been testing my tank for Ammonia and Nitrites every couple of days just to make sure there wasn't a nasty spike that got triggered by the transfer and thus far both tests have come back 0. My Nitrates are around 5 and I have been feeding a little bit of reef frenzy each day to keep the shrimp, fish and crabs happy and the snails seem content with the algae on the rocks. The point is that if the tank were going to cycle or have a spike it would've had plenty of opportunities to do it by now. I will still continue to monitor it for a few more days. I just stuck with the 40lbs of rock from my old tank, but will be cycling 50lbs of additional rock in a separate container and will add it once it cycles.

Incidentally here is a quick video of the scratched up tank I ditched, needless to say I am really glad I hooked up the lights before filling/transferring anything:

 

[jay0705]

Very nice, this is why iam so hesitant to buy used

 

[Jesterrace]

I can't really complain too much since I got my investment back on the tank. It was $350 for the stand, sump, pump, skimmer, tank and piping and the tank sold for $100. So I essentially paid $250 for everything but the tank. Not too bad considering those items would've cost me around $500-$600 new. My LFS sold the new tank to me at cost, so I took the $100 for the sale of the old tank and applied it to the new one. I essentially paid an extra $136 to upgrade from old and scratched to brand new.