treat fish with ick

Discussion in 'Fish Disease & Treatment' started by xeanliao, May 14, 2017.

  1. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    Yes, display tank and the hospital both are up. do I need to do anything to lower the PH now?
     
  2. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    The water changes with fresh water will accomplish that. No lower than 7.8.
     
    xeanliao likes this.
  3. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    It the 6th day since all the fishes in the hospital and the 2nd day since the salinity gets to 1.008. I am so glad that I bought the refractometer and it just arrived in time. The result really surprised me. The Instant Ocean Hydrometer showed 1.012 while the new arrived refractometer showed that it was already 1.009. I might have killed all the fishes if I have continued lower the salinity based on the hydrometer?

    With the refractometer, I also found that my display tank is actually with 1.021 salinity while I thought it was on 1.025. Maybe that has something to do with why I am not able to raise the magnesium level and my frogspawn and hammer coral has not being growing as fast as they used to be in my old smaller tank when I was using a different hydrometer.

    Back to the hospital, the ammonia seems moving to the right direction. It is still not zero, but reduced to 0.25. The PH also gets lower to 7.8 by itself. All the fishes are active and normal except an expected problem: someone is bully my dearest fish: the Randall goby. The poor guy has lost half of its fin and broken dorsal. No one seems willing to share hiding place with him and he is exposed to be attacked. I caught him and put him in a breeder box in the hospital to protect him. It is a goby he doesn't really need much swim space, right? (still hoping I can just use one tank for all)

    Next, will do 20% water change next weekend, meanwhile will remove debris by removing/replacing smaller amount of water every other day.

    Sound good? Any idea for simple auto top off AND maintaining the salinity level precisely at where it is now? Or anything you would do differently or improvement, please share.
     
  4. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    Does your refractometer measure ppt? Don't allow salinity to drop lower than 1.009.

    I'd have say, You should have gone with the two tanks and its not too late. At least set it up for your "dearest fish".
     
  5. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    The water seems stabilized, ammonia has been zero since 3 days ago. However, The blue tank started to get something on the top underneath the dorsal fin on both side of the body, I noticed two days ago, and it looks getting worse today? the dorsal fin looks like getting some small flakes, too?

    Do you know what is that? The blue tank and yellow tank both swim fast together most of the time, but I did not see them fighting? could that be due to fast swimming in the tank that is too small for her and scratch her skin? Or anything I need to react now?

    see the attached picture. the real size is about 2.5 inches long.

    IMG_5260.JPG
    IMG_5266.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  6. 2quills

    2quills Administrator Staff Member

    Looks like head and lateral line erosion (HLLE).
     
  7. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    that sound bad. Thanks for the info I did a quick google, and found the following

    Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

    The condition referred to as head and lateral line erosion (HLLE) is different from the above ailments as it is a non-pathogenic ailment. A tang afflicted with HLLE will present with pitting and scarring along its lateral line and on the head. Fading color is also quite common. Like hole-in-the-head disease, HLLE is not very well understood, but it is our experience that it is often related to malnutrition or prolonged exposure to hyposaline conditions. Stray electric current (e.g., from faulty powerheads) is also sometimes believed to be the culprit.

    Anything I can do?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  8. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    It is related to bad nutrition, bad water conditions, stress, cramped quarters resulting in stress, not hyposalinity under normal treatment for ich as long as pH is adequate.
     
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  9. 2quills

    2quills Administrator Staff Member

    I'm not totally convinced it isn't just a reaction due to all of the stress it's been through.

    At this point I would just stay the course with hypo and monitor the salinity like a hawk.

    And it needs plenty of nutrition. They are grazers so they are used to picking at food most of the time. Make sure to provide plenty of greens as well as meaty food. Might pick up a liquid vitamin supplement formulated for fish and soak the food in it prior to feeding.
     
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  10. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    I only feed my BTA while the DT is in fallow at this moment, and the DT is growing so much more algae everywhere. The tangs must be gazing algae while they were in DT beyond I knew of.

    Thanks for the advices: more water changing, feed more frequent with vitamin supplement, that I can do immediately from now.
     
  11. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    Zoecon or Selcon are pretty good supplements, especially for fish prone to HLLE.
     
  12. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    I think I have very good clue what is happening now after the heart-breaking hard lesson: two gobies just died overnight, and a clownfish probably not going to make it. The blue tang is also breathing heavily now.

    The tank must be still in cycling!!! The ammonia is zero, however the nitrite sudden jump to 5ppm when I tested today.

    I immediately set up the other 10-gallon tank, and do 50% water changes with the same hyposaline water I prepared. The clownfish is still bottom up, but would move if I blow water on her. After the 50% water changes, the nitrite still 2ppm. I am thinking to put the dying clown fish in a totally clean prepared hypo salinity water? Do yo think that will give her better chance?
     
  13. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry for this trouble. There are no shortcuts in this hobby and putting all those fish in an uncycled tank is a recipe for disaster. How are things going now? Going forward, I'd keep a 10 gal or the 25 up and running as a permanent quarantine tank.
     
  14. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    I have the 25 gallon tank running most of the time, once for a while, I substitute 5 gallon of water with the waste water from DT when I do the routine DT water change. I thought that is enough to keep it cycled. Apparently, that was only good enough for quarantine 1 fish, but not cycled enough for all my fishes as hospital :-(

    you were right in the first place :-( In 2 days, I have lost 4 fishes including the blue tang to be treated who was doing so well in the past 3 years.

    A side observation on my DT, without these fishes, it seems out of balance as well. Soft coral doesn't seem to care. Hammer/frogspawn and zoes seems doing better, where bird nest used to grow noticeable fast and now is dying. Is that because bird nest need more nutrients when fishes are in the tank?
     
  15. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    Well, are you using DT water a lot to change water in quarantine? If so, that could be a problem if you are not ensuring adequate mix for replacement water in the DT. What is your procedure?

    As to this disaster.....live and learn. Most of us have made some whooper mistakes. Going forward, make sure you have a viable quarantine tank at all times and use that tank to QT all new fish before they go into DT. You can keep the QT cycled using some rubble LR and feed your rock so it doesn't die off. Key is not adding many fish. For 25, no more than 2 in QT. Best to only QT 1 fish at a time unless they are a matched pair, schooling fish, etc. Keep the QT water with good water circulation as well. I've used an Eclipse Hood in my QT which worked so well for lighting and it includes a built-in filter. I also added a small filter/powerhead in tank to make sure that water in lower regions of tank was getting circulated and filtration. Paying attention to QT will result in a mostly trouble free experience in your DT where fish disease is concerned.
     
  16. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    I normally change my 100-gallon DT water bi-weekly 15-20 gallons. Since I felt my fish stocking has reached to limit already, I only changed the QT water probably once a month irregularly the past 2 years. I took the first 5 gallon messy water from my 20-gallon refugium for replacing the water it in the 25 QT. Then continue with DT cleanup and remove another 10-15 gallon from DT. Does it seem good to you? what would you do differently?
     
  17. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    What I'm asking is how do you mix the water, how long, etc.?
     
  18. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    I mix Instant Ocean Sea Salt with RO/DI in a Rubbermaid container. Drop in a subversive water pump (I think it is about 160 gph) and let it run two overnights before I use it Sunday (sometime only one overnight if did not preparing the water before Friday night). Used to drop in a heater but for no reason not anymore. Before I use it, I normally need to add small amount of RO/DI or salt adjustment to make sure my Instant Ocean hydrometer read 1.0025 (now I know this hydrometer is 0.003 off).
     
  19. beth

    beth Administrator Staff Member

    What kind of hydrometer are you using? The plastic swing arms are highly inaccurate many times. The glass hydrometers do a better job but I would recommend that you get a refractometer. You really can't treat ich adequately using hypo wo a refractometer. The mixing process you use seems right on target. just make sure that your mix water is at adequate pH level before using it. Test after you have completed mixing to make sure the water going in to DT has the same pH as tank water.

    Bird nest is a sps and need adequate levels of high output lighting and calcium. What is your calcium levels in the tank, and the lighting? Where is the placement of the bird nest in your tank (distance from light source). SPS do not require anything from fish so the absence of fish would not effect any corals. It could well be that chasing down all those fish and getting them out of the DT, though, has adversely effect your coral.
     
  20. xeanliao

    xeanliao Member

    This is my hydrometer: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/larger/lg-116658-62909R_07-fish.jpg
    I have a refractometer now and found it is off by 0.003 lower. I am gradually raising the it with the top off water now.

    My Calcium is around 400. I dose kalkwasser and magnesium with top off water most of the time. I have 2 165W LED hanging 10 inch above the water surface. My Bird Nest is about 4 inch below the surface and it used to grow half inch each month. It is like a 10 inch tall at this moment. I believe my Bird nest experienced RTN. In 2 days, 90% died. It seems stopped yesterday and still have 10% alive. Keeping my finger crossed if it can come back. I had a RTN once last year, and my green slime was completely dead while the same bird nest was not affected when it was just a tiny little frag.

    I used to run full light for 12 hours. My frogspawn seems to have issues with the light, losing color and not growing. Now, I turn the white led to minimal after come home from work. Still keep the blue and red for 12 hours. Its color seems coming back a little but still growing very slow. Frogspawn was very easy going before when I was using T5. Soft coral grows like weeds, I am actually look for a way to limit its expansion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017

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