Yet another reason to ban assault weapons

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2992402
Give me a break. So someone like reefraff who carries his gun wherever he goes is an exception? You actually want to say that all those instances were done with illegal weapons? Since you are such a pro advocate on this issue, I imagine you carry a gun in your car. Is yours illegal? Typical conservative. Proved wrong and tries to twist the info to justify their position.

I have no problems with gun ownership. I have no problems with someone carrying a concealed weapon, IF they have a justification for doing so -- live in a HIGH crime area, employed in a high risk position (carrying money, private detective, etc.). However, these individuals should be required to go through a rigorous firearm training class that includes real-life scenarios. They should also have psychological profiles and evaluations performed to verify their mental stability. I do have a problem with Joe Blow carrying around a gun because he/she is living a life of paranoia thinking they're going to be attacked around every corner. You have no clue what their mental stability is, and whether they can 'crack' at any time. Look at reefraff. He gets into some altercation on the road, and his solution is to wave a gun in the air, broadcasting his intentions to use it. One wrong action from any of those kids, and one of them would've been dead. You gonna tell me that's justified? He validates it with his '2nd Amendment rant', but just look at how dangerous this situation was. And the idiocy of it all is these kids could have very well had their own gun. Then what? Look at the news articles I posted, and that'll tell you 'The rest of the story'. While you're looking at them, think whether the person with the gun was prosecuted for murder or not. A rational person would know the correct answer.
You want to own a gun for personal protection? Got no problem with it. But that protection should be limited to your place of residence. Ordinary citizens who walk around with a gun under their clothes, or in their car, are ticking time bombs. Yea, you may actually have that rare occassion where you encounter a situation where it's justified to use that weapon to protect yourself. But there's also those occassions where something may just set you off, and your abilty to have a deadly weapon in those situations could mean death for someone when it shouldn't have. Road rage incidents are a prime example. If no one were allowed to carry firearms in their car, you would rarely hear of a death occurring because of a road rage incident. Sure a vehicle could be used just as easily, but rationally how many road rage incidents have you seen where someone would risk damaging their car because they got cut off, or harrassed about a sticker on their car? Would you intentionally hit someone knowing that person would report you to the police, and you'd pay enourmous fines for Hit And Run, jailed for vehicular assault, and lose you license and insurance? Even if they hit your car, you're less likely to be critically injured, as compared to being shot.
Well 90% of people don't have a CHL in texas. So there is a good chance that none of those situations were legally carrying... Plus the crime rate among legal carriers is EXTREEMLY low. Compared to the state average... Plus come on, with the agenda of the media. Wouldn't you think they'd jump on a legally carrying person going nuts...
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2992409
Well 90% of people don't have a CHL in texas. So there is a good chance that none of those situations were legally carrying... Plus the crime rate among legal carriers is EXTREEMLY low. Compared to the state average... Plus come on, with the agenda of the media. Wouldn't you think they'd jump on a legally carrying person going nuts...
Haven't looked at the Texas statutes as far as carrying a legal weapon in your vehicle. But I know I can carry my pistol to the gun range with no issues. Are you saying the laws are different in Texas than in Arizona? Why would the media jump on it if it's legal to transport a legal firearm in your vehicle? What, you don't think there's Texans who have the same mindset as reefraff and carry their loaded weapon in their car for protection? I saw on TV this morning there's a bill that's going through the Texas Legislature right now whereby they want to allow gun owners to keep their guns in their vehicles while they are parked at their place of employment:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_new_gun.html
The proponents are pushing it so the average gun owner will have access to their weapon in case a fellow employee goes 'postal', which is kind of stupid since you probably can't get to your car before the melee is over. The people who are against it state that's why they don't want guns available around the workplace. In case someone does go 'postal', they can simply walk out to their car, grab their gun, come back in and start shooting.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2991596
I read the San Antonio Express-News cover-to-cover every day. I hit the three major local TV station web sites at least once a day. I read CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, and several other news feeds all day. I watch at least one local 10 PM newscast every night. I know what I see, and I know what I read. Your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. You live in this little bubble world of yours where the only thing that matters in God Bless America, Bush's useless Iraq conflict, and spouting whatever historical facts come to your mind. You don't want to believe me, I honestly don't care. You don't like my comments, bypass them.
You read and watch a lot of news... So do many of us. You made an outlandish claim and I asked you to prove it.
If you don't want to be challenged to back up your claims don't make such bold statements without providing some proof.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2992404
Want me to find 10 examples in Arizona? Probably wouldn't be hard to do, considering they let every Bozo who lives there carry a gun in their car.

And out of all those examples you can dig up how many of the suspects were otherwise law abiding citizens without a criminal record? I think we all know the answer to that one. But yes lets disarm law abiding folk so the crooks don't risk being exterminated. Are you an ACLU lawyer on the side?
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Bionic,
You still dodge the question you raised. Would someone who has shot in national and state rifle matches ( and won) be "proficient" by your definition?
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2992301
And not one mention if the handgun was legal... Which leads me to believe they were not...

I'd say the opposite, the liberal media would never admit to the armed citizen protecting themselves with their Constitutional legal firearm, it just don't fit the agenda.
Just like you never hear the lies about the "recovery" bill which passed, and the protections the bill gave to the "evil" ( and contractually legal) bonuses. Ask his Immaculatness about that.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2992684
You read and watch a lot of news... So do many of us. You made an outlandish claim and I asked you to prove it.
If you don't want to be challenged to back up your claims don't make such bold statements without providing some proof.
Learn to use a search engine. It's an intersting concept. Apparently it wasn't an 'outlandish claim' now was it? As I said MULTIPLE TIMES, I haven't absolutely nothing to prove to you. If you don't believe me, prove I'm wrong. Either that, or choose to ignore my posts. Your choice.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2992542
Haven't looked at the Texas statutes as far as carrying a legal weapon in your vehicle. But I know I can carry my pistol to the gun range with no issues. Are you saying the laws are different in Texas than in Arizona? Why would the media jump on it if it's legal to transport a legal firearm in your vehicle? What, you don't think there's Texans who have the same mindset as reefraff and carry their loaded weapon in their car for protection? I saw on TV this morning there's a bill that's going through the Texas Legislature right now whereby they want to allow gun owners to keep their guns in their vehicles while they are parked at their place of employment:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...s_new_gun.html
The proponents are pushing it so the average gun owner will have access to their weapon in case a fellow employee goes 'postal', which is kind of stupid since you probably can't get to your car before the melee is over. The people who are against it state that's why they don't want guns available around the workplace. In case someone does go 'postal', they can simply walk out to their car, grab their gun, come back in and start shooting.
you can't carry a loaded weapon I believe the term is "easily accessible" without a CHL even in the car. I believe the interpretation is, not within reach of the driver (or passengers) And in the case of a 1911 or something like that. The weapon and the clip must be more than 3 feet away from each other. So you could technically have the gun sitting on your front seat. But you can't get to the clip. So if they had a loaded gun in their car within their reach then it is illegal without a CHL.
But that being said, CHL carriers have a SIGNIFICANTLY lower crime rate. 127 out of 100k vs the general public...
It is VERY safe to assume these people weren't legally carrying...
But I guess as the liberal creed goes, "Never let facts stand in your way" you'll ignore everything I've said.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2992696
And out of all those examples you can dig up how many of the suspects were otherwise law abiding citizens without a criminal record? I think we all know the answer to that one. But yes lets disarm law abiding folk so the crooks don't risk being exterminated. Are you an ACLU lawyer on the side?

Another conservative response. Is that the norm your your group? Come up with supposed theories to justify your position? This coming from a guy who points a gun at a car load of kids. Especially when one of the kids was reaching under the seat. So are you considered a law abiding gun owner? You do realize what you did by waving that gun would be considered threatening harm with a deadly weapon? You may THINK you had the right because you were protecting yourself, but prove that to a cop when the kids called one. If you'd done that to me, you'd have been reported. Go run through that same scenario again, and have a cop called. Who do you think he's going to believe? The kids would just say, "Yea, we harrassed him about the basketball sticker on his car, and he mouthed something back to us, flipped us off, and started weaving and hitting his breaks in front of us. Next thing you know, he starts waving this gun at us!! One of my friends started looking under the seat to see if there was anything we could use to protect us in case he started shooting at us!! We turned on the next corner to get away from the maniac!!" Yea, I'm sure the cop would pat you on the back, tell you not to do it again, and then give the kids a ticket for reckless driving.

Which city in Arizona do you live in? I'll keep an eye on the Obits for your picture.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2992734
you can't carry a loaded weapon I believe the term is "easily accessible" without a CHL even in the car. I believe the interpretation is, not within reach of the driver (or passengers) And in the case of a 1911 or something like that. The weapon and the clip must be more than 3 feet away from each other. So you could technically have the gun sitting on your front seat. But you can't get to the clip. So if they had a loaded gun in their car within their reach then it is illegal without a CHL.
But that being said, CHL carriers have a SIGNIFICANTLY lower crime rate. 127 out of 100k vs the general public...
It is VERY safe to assume these people weren't legally carrying...
But I guess as the liberal creed goes, "Never let facts stand in your way" you'll ignore everything I've said.

Then you better arrest 99% of the gun owners in Texas, including yourself.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2992733
Learn to use a search engine. It's an intersting concept. Apparently it wasn't an 'outlandish claim' now was it? As I said MULTIPLE TIMES, I haven't absolutely nothing to prove to you. If you don't believe me, prove I'm wrong. Either that, or choose to ignore my posts. Your choice.
Not only do I need to learn to use a search engine, apparently I need to sharpen my reading comprehension skills as well.
Bionic, you said:
Originally Posted by bionicarm

.... We've had similar scenarios like yours recently in San Antonio. Most of them ended with the CWH getting shot or killed. ....
Now, I read each of your articles... According to your post "most" of these stories should contain victims who were CWHs. Yet, much to my surprise, not once in all 8 of those articles were legal concealed weapons licenses mentioned.
In fact, one of the stories didn't even take place in Texas.
All you did was prove the need that citizens have to be armed against criminals.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2992759
Another conservative response. Is that the norm your your group? Come up with supposed theories to justify your position? This coming from a guy who points a gun at a car load of kids. Especially when one of the kids was reaching under the seat. So are you considered a law abiding gun owner? You do realize what you did by waving that gun would be considered threatening harm with a deadly weapon? You may THINK you had the right because you were protecting yourself, but prove that to a cop when the kids called one. If you'd done that to me, you'd have been reported. Go run through that same scenario again, and have a cop called. Who do you think he's going to believe? The kids would just say, "Yea, we harrassed him about the basketball sticker on his car, and he mouthed something back to us, flipped us off, and started weaving and hitting his breaks in front of us. Next thing you know, he starts waving this gun at us!! One of my friends started looking under the seat to see if there was anything we could use to protect us in case he started shooting at us!! We turned on the next corner to get away from the maniac!!" Yea, I'm sure the cop would pat you on the back, tell you not to do it again, and then give the kids a ticket for reckless driving.

Which city in Arizona do you live in? I'll keep an eye on the Obits for your picture.

Still running your mouth (fingers) about things that didn't happen I see.
So you think the criminal tendencies or histories of someone involved in a gun crime has no bearing on the issue? If you could demonstrate an increase in gun violence by otherwise law abiding people after making it easier for them to carry guns perhaps a majority of people in this country might agree with you that it should be harder to carry.
And I now live in Colorado. Legal to carry here too except for the City and County of Denver which I avoid anyway.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2992813
Still running your mouth (fingers) about things that didn't happen I see.
So you think the criminal tendencies or histories of someone involved in a gun crime has no bearing on the issue? If you could demonstrate an increase in gun violence by otherwise law abiding people after making it easier for them to carry guns perhaps a majority of people in this country might agree with you that it should be harder to carry.
And I now live in Colorado. Legal to carry here too except for the City and County of Denver which I avoid anyway.
Didn't happen? Go reread your post on your little escapade. I just gave you a synopsis of what I perceive the conversation would be if the cops were called. I don't have a clue if it happened that way, but by your tone, it sounds about right.
Law abiding? OK. Here's some road rage incidents with weapons in Arizona. You say it's legal to carry a loaded weapon in your car in that state. So were these 'law abiding gun owners'?
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ge0319-ON.html
This was labeled , "2 arrested in Tempe road-rage shooting" but the idiotic Arizona papers charge to read their archives:
http://localsearch.azcentral.com/sp?...n&siteIdType=2
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...catn7a8nA.cspx
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/280556.php
Here's some dude who shot himself after 'waving his gun around' in a road rage incident. Was this your reefraff? They're investigating whether they'll bring up charges for reckless endangerment:
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...7MB4f9VSQ.cspx
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ge0421-ON.html
Here's a video of a guy who gets into a gunfight in a road rage incident and is telling his side of the story. Look where he's sitting during the interview:
http://www.truveo.com/Raw-Man-Descri.../id/1359437059
Want some examples from Colorado?
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2993154
Didn't happen? Go reread your post on your little escapade. I just gave you a synopsis of what I perceive the conversation would be if the cops were called. I don't have a clue if it happened that way, but by your tone, it sounds about right.
Law abiding? OK. Here's some road rage incidents with weapons in Arizona. You say it's legal to carry a loaded weapon in your car in that state. So were these 'law abiding gun owners'?
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ge0319-ON.html
This was labeled , "2 arrested in Tempe road-rage shooting" but the idiotic Arizona papers charge to read their archives:
http://localsearch.azcentral.com/sp?...n&siteIdType=2
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...catn7a8nA.cspx
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/280556.php
Here's some dude who shot himself after 'waving his gun around' in a road rage incident. Was this your reefraff? They're investigating whether they'll bring up charges for reckless endangerment:
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...7MB4f9VSQ.cspx
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ge0421-ON.html
Here's a video of a guy who gets into a gunfight in a road rage incident and is telling his side of the story. Look where he's sitting during the interview:
http://www.truveo.com/Raw-Man-Descri.../id/1359437059
Want some examples from Colorado?
So let me get this right. In texas, people probably not carrying guns legally, is your argument for more gun control.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2993169
So let me get this right. In texas, people probably not carrying guns legally, is your argument for more gun control.
You keep saying "people probably not carrying guns legally in Texas". Tell me ANYONE who is an avid gun owner in Texas that follows the weapons statute verbatim when it comes to transporting that weapon in a vehicle. I can name at least 10 people that I know that currently carry their pistols LOADED while it's in their car. Most of them are tucked underneath a seat, or in a glove box. Some put it in the trunk, others just have it in a holster or case on the front seat. If I asked any of them if they've read the statute you posted, they would all say no. Most of them would say they've always carried their guns in their cars like that, and would have no idea it was illegal. Why? Because there's no requirement to read these statutes in order to purchase a gun in the State of Texas. I can walk in into any gun store in San Antonio tomorrow, buy a gun, fill out the paperwork, wait about 15 minutes while they do a 'background check', then walk out the door with the weapon. No one is reciting me gun laws or statutes. That's the problem I have with clueless citizens owning guns. They are not required to have any extensive training or experience to buy one. Some guy at the gun shop gives the average buyer a 10 minute quickie course on how to load and ---- the thing. They have no clue why the person wants the gun, or how they intend to use it. But of course because of the 2nd Amendment, it's none of their damn business!!
So my argument for more gun control is anyone wanting to buy a weapon, they should be required to go through a thorough and extensive course on how to operate and maintain that weapon. Have them obtain a full psychological evaluation to verify their mental state. EDUCATION. Make them go through a virtual course with the different scenarios. Show them video of examples of road rage, arguments, and confrontations that can lead to a person drawing their weapon, and understand the consequences if they do pull that gun out. Inform them of all the laws and statutes that pertain to gun ownership in their state. Explain to them the legalities of gun ownership - possible consequences for shooting someone, situations where you pull your weapon and you could be charged with a misdameanor or felony offense, etc. If you educate a person before allowing them to have a gun, many of these unnecessary deaths would never occur. If you ever had to use that weapon to protect you or someone else, you would know how to properly use it, and when it would be better to keep it in the holster.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2993154
Didn't happen? Go reread your post on your little escapade. I just gave you a synopsis of what I perceive the conversation would be if the cops were called. I don't have a clue if it happened that way, but by your tone, it sounds about right.
Law abiding? OK. Here's some road rage incidents with weapons in Arizona. You say it's legal to carry a loaded weapon in your car in that state. So were these 'law abiding gun owners'?
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ge0319-ON.html
This was labeled , "2 arrested in Tempe road-rage shooting" but the idiotic Arizona papers charge to read their archives:
http://localsearch.azcentral.com/sp?...n&siteIdType=2
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...catn7a8nA.cspx
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/280556.php
Here's some dude who shot himself after 'waving his gun around' in a road rage incident. Was this your reefraff? They're investigating whether they'll bring up charges for reckless endangerment:
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...7MB4f9VSQ.cspx
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ge0421-ON.html
Here's a video of a guy who gets into a gunfight in a road rage incident and is telling his side of the story. Look where he's sitting during the interview:
http://www.truveo.com/Raw-Man-Descri.../id/1359437059
Want some examples from Colorado?
Your synopsis is BS. Displaying a gun and pointing it at someone are two different things. I was taught right, never point any gun at anything you don't plan on shooting. And for the record the "kids" were probably late teens to early 20's, we ain't talking high schoolers here.
In any one of those stories does it mention the background of the person with the gun? You act like having the relaxed carry law causes all those incidents. There are a lot of shootings from cars in California where it is illegal to carry loaded in a car unless you have a permit and the piece is locked up. Obviously it is the people with the criminal tendencies causing the problems there. You cant lay the shootings in Arizona or anywhere else at the feet of people with concealed carry permits without having proof the shooter had a permit. People who ave a habit of breaking the law don't generally give a rats ashcan about gun regulations.
That doesn't mean someone with a permit has never done something stupid with their gun. There are people with a drivers license that do stupid things behind the wheel. Does that mean we should revoke everyone's license for the greater good?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2993264
So my argument for more gun control is anyone wanting to buy a weapon, they should be required to go through a thorough and extensive course on how to operate and maintain that weapon. Have them obtain a full psychological evaluation to verify their mental state. EDUCATION. Make them go through a virtual course with the different scenarios. Show them video of examples of road rage, arguments, and confrontations that can lead to a person drawing their weapon, and understand the consequences if they do pull that gun out. Inform them of all the laws and statutes that pertain to gun ownership in their state. Explain to them the legalities of gun ownership - possible consequences for shooting someone, situations where you pull your weapon and you could be charged with a misdameanor or felony offense, etc. If you educate a person before allowing them to have a gun, many of these unnecessary deaths would never occur. If you ever had to use that weapon to protect you or someone else, you would know how to properly use it, and when it would be better to keep it in the holster.
I would have no problem with a person buying a gun having to take a test to demonstrate basic knowledge of firearms safety. I had to do that before participating in my first DCM shoot.
As far as requiring mental evaluations and crap thats just crazy.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2993264
You keep saying "people probably not carrying guns legally in Texas". Tell me ANYONE who is an avid gun owner in Texas that follows the weapons statute verbatim when it comes to transporting that weapon in a vehicle. I can name at least 10 people that I know that currently carry their pistols LOADED while it's in their car. Most of them are tucked underneath a seat, or in a glove box. Some put it in the trunk, others just have it in a holster or case on the front seat. If I asked any of them if they've read the statute you posted, they would all say no. Most of them would say they've always carried their guns in their cars like that, and would have no idea it was illegal. Why? Because there's no requirement to read these statutes in order to purchase a gun in the State of Texas. I can walk in into any gun store in San Antonio tomorrow, buy a gun, fill out the paperwork, wait about 15 minutes while they do a 'background check', then walk out the door with the weapon. No one is reciting me gun laws or statutes. That's the problem I have with clueless citizens owning guns. They are not required to have any extensive training or experience to buy one. Some guy at the gun shop gives the average buyer a 10 minute quickie course on how to load and ---- the thing. They have no clue why the person wants the gun, or how they intend to use it. But of course because of the 2nd Amendment, it's none of their damn business!!
So my argument for more gun control is anyone wanting to buy a weapon, they should be required to go through a thorough and extensive course on how to operate and maintain that weapon. Have them obtain a full psychological evaluation to verify their mental state. EDUCATION. Make them go through a virtual course with the different scenarios. Show them video of examples of road rage, arguments, and confrontations that can lead to a person drawing their weapon, and understand the consequences if they do pull that gun out. Inform them of all the laws and statutes that pertain to gun ownership in their state. Explain to them the legalities of gun ownership - possible consequences for shooting someone, situations where you pull your weapon and you could be charged with a misdameanor or felony offense, etc. If you educate a person before allowing them to have a gun, many of these unnecessary deaths would never occur. If you ever had to use that weapon to protect you or someone else, you would know how to properly use it, and when it would be better to keep it in the holster.
Ok, do this with gun, but also before allowing teens/adults the ability to procreate. Its harder to get a gun than a baby. You talk about actions having consequences, here's one for you!
Indeed, keep it in the holster!
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2993293
Ok, do this with gun, but also before allowing teens/adults the ability to procreate. Its harder to get a gun than a baby. You talk about actions having consequences, here's one for you!
Indeed, keep it in the holster!
I won't argue with you on that one. Same thing for purchasing a boat. Don't know where you live, but here in Texas, you can walk into a boat store, buy a 20 ft. open-bow with a 250HP Merc on it, drop it in the lake and go. No license requirement, no training course, nothing. You're required to get a drivers license and take a test in order to drive a 5000 lb. vehicle, but you don't have to do anything to drop a 2500 lb. boat in the water and drive anywhere you want in the lake with absolutely no training.
 
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