10 gallon reef help!

[jim27]

I've just started setting up my 10g reef. It has about 7lbs of lr and 15lbs of ls both taken from my 55g. The water was also taken from it so I don't think the tank will have to cycle. I'm going to get lights for it tomorrow morning. What kind of lights should I get and how much will they cost? I'm thinking of putting either a manderin goby, firefish, percula clown, or some kind of damsel with a few easy corals, a feather duster, and an anenome(if I get a clown).

 

[jim27]

Oh yeah I forgot, the tank doesn't have a hood just 2 pieces of glass covering the top. How much for a hood that will hold a 55w PC?

 

[jim27]

And what about inverts and a cleanup crew? I know I need turbo snails and some sort of crabs but how many and what kind?

 

[fishymissy]

Nano tanks can be so cool!
I have a 20g myself and I really enjoy this tank, I hope you will enjoy yours too!
Couple of things about your selection of fish. Mandarins do very poorly in even large tanks, in a little 10g there simply won't be enough pods to keep him alive. I have heard of a "few" that eat brine shrimp and mysis, but the vast majority don't. Nix the anemone too.....at least until the tank is 6 months old or better. If the only reason you are considering one is because of the clownfish, then don't bother, clowns can do quite well without one. I have a percula in my 20g and he is quite healthy and happy without one.
The percula or firefish are excellent choices, featherdusters too! 2 turbo snails and 1 astrea will work great. I would skip the crabs and get a shrimp instead......
If the glass is steady, you know won't slip out of place, why not keep using it? The 10g I used to have had an all glass hood.
HTH

 

[luke]

Watts per gallon rules do NOT hold up in nanos. 55 watts of light is 55 watts of light!! It is not enough to keep anything healthy! I run a 175 MH on my 10 gallon and am getting ready to put a second on. I am keeping hard corals and high light items so this is excesive if you want shrooms. The point is decide what you want and go from there. If you want anything photosythetic, get some good lighting though. It really is not fair to the animal to skimp.
Luke

 

[reefcrazy]

hey i also have a ten gallon nano check it out.

as of right now it has 25p of live sand, 15p of live rock, 9 blue leg hermits, 1 snail, some mushrooms, one colt coral and one small clam not shure what tipe it was given to me. it has a two gallon refuge that i'm still tring to get some macro algea for it, with sand and 5p of live rock. the ten gallon has a 32w smart lamp. here's a pic of it.

i know guys that keep lps on this light and also have clams. on my refuge i have one 13w pc daylight.

every thing has been doing great and i haven't had any problem.

 

[luke]

Please don't try and keep clams in 32 watts of light.
They are living things that have requirements (that 32w does NOT meet)
Luke

 

[reefcrazy]

it's a small clam, it depends more on phyto than light as of right now, when it get's a little bigger i'll trow it in my other tank.

 

[y2says]

Luke...I have to disagree with you about your post. I have a 35g hex right now and I'm running 2 55w PCs and both my soft and hard corals are growing. My hex tank is also much taller than most rectangular tanks.
JIM27...IMO, find out what kinds of corals first then figure out how much light. Some corals actually don't even like a lot of lights. Mushrooms, leathers, and some polyps do fine with minimal light. I'm starting a 10g myself and I'm thinking about getting a JBJ lighting system. I think they are 2 32w and I'm going to have all soft corals, snails, shrimps and feather dusters. I would stay away from anemones as they need a lot of lights, good water conditions and if they die, they can release toxins that can kill everything in your tank. Also, stay away from mandarins, especially in a smaller tank. They'll starve to death. I have one in my 35g and so far so good, but I'm keeping an eye on him (I bought him before I knew about them).

 

[luke]

Y2SAYS - have you ever run a reef on MHs?? I am glad to hear you are getting growth, but the real question is how much growth?? Under MHs shrooms can spread like wildfire, xenias grow more than an 1" a week, and macro algae acts like micro algae. Corals can survive under low light conditions (which no offense but 55w PCs fall into low light) Besides you have 110w. As I said WPG is bogus therefore you have 110 watts not 3.xx WPG. Frankly most MH systems are low light in the scheme of things, these animals have evolved to bask in the sun which puts off a large amount of lumens, far more than a 55w PC or 175w MH.
The real point I was and am trying to make is that a small tank does not mean you get to skimp on lighting. The corals don't change there needs to live in a 10gallon rather than a 500.
Luke

 

[jim27]

So what kind of lighting do you recommend Luke? And please, stop using all these abbreviations. I don't know what you people are talking about!

 

[luke]

As I said earlier I run 175 watts of Metal Halide light over my 10 gallon tank (MH) and am not happy that I have enough light (yet). This, in my opinion, is not exessive at all. Personally I don't recomend people run nanos in the first place, because you run into problems like this. People start nanos as a way to save cash, but that is not a good reason to take on a tank.
I personally would recommend at least 2x55watt power compact (PC) flourescents. This is on the dim side in my opinion. Now of course by now everyone is wondering if I have lost my mind, but corals need light wheather they are in a 10 or the ocean.
A cheap alternative would be to run the tank in natural sunlight. If heating and cooling become issues plumb in a 50 gallon rubermaid container to add a bit more mass. And run a 150 watt heater instead of a 50. This would cost all of $50 more than the origanl tank.
The best nano reefs are small tanks with large sumps. They make for spectacular displays because they can support the bio load of a larger tanki but it is crammed into a small tank (case in point Julian Sprung's 15 gallon on the cover of the Reef Aquarium Vol. 1, it has a 60 gallon sump I believe)
The point is, if you want coral in a 10 the lighting has to be sufficient. There will be loads of people to tell you otherwise, and if you want to procede take their advice, but your tank won't be as healthy as it CAN be. The point is to have a thriving reef, not a reef that sneaks by.
The only other abbreviation I could find (see above for PC & MH) is WPG: Watts Per Gallon.
Hope this Helps (HTH)
Luke

 

[y2says]

Luke...I'm just saying that you may not need all that much light. Sure the more the better, but it all comes down to what types of corals you want. I'm sure your tank is nice, but you have to understand, some people may not have the funds for high output lights. I currently have 2 tanks running and about to start the 10g as soon as the live rocks cure and I'm looking at getting a 180-200g tank. So for me, the 10g is just an extra tank that I mind as well use. I think if you can get away with less lights, then do it. If you can go more, then go for it. That's what nice about this hobby, there is no general rule!

 

[luke]

Y2SAYS - I have to agree that there are corals that can survive and even thrive in low light, but, most people want more. Some Mushrooms and polyps will do ok, some soft corals will live, and even some hard corals won't die in low light. But people have to be aware of this (not that anyone here is demonstrateing that they are not) (execpt maybe the clam )
Really I cannot honestly expect people with 10 gallon tanks to run MH over them (although those that do will be happy with them). My problem is when I see people trying to get through this hobby cheaply by cutting corners. I understand really well about not having the cash for the hobby. I started when I was in eighth grade, needless to say back then I did not have MHs or many corals. And when I did get moey it went to livestock not equipment. Still for two hundred bucks anyone could have a really cool tank:
Take a 10 gallon tank, built a DIY siphon overflow. Plumb that into a large rubbermaid container. Get a heater, return pump, and a good air pump and run the return back to the tank. Use the air pump for added circulation (with the added benifit of getting some foam fractionazation on the side) add LR and sand. Place infront of bnig windo in house. You now have a cool tank that could (with maintainance) support most corals people want to keep.
Corals would be extra. But you cannot say that that would not be cheap and cool.
One could do a deep water tank with no lights at all. But this would be exponentially harder than a shallow water tank.
I guess what my rambling amounts to is that yes tanks can be low light, but they cannot support the life that most people think they can. Also high light animals needs CAN be met cheaply if one tries. And most importantly nanos are not a good means to save money in the hobby.
Luke

 

[kelly]

Luke,
I have seen several nano-reef tanks running on 32W PC lighting, and doing just fine, some even looked better the alot of bigger tanks that I have seen. Your statement "55 watts of light is 55 watts of light!! It is not enough to keep anything healthy!" is wrong, it is your opinion, and not fact! I have run larger tanks on less lighting, and everything was healthy and reproducing.
You may advocate that more is better, but this is not always true. There are many corals that are not photosynthetic, therefore they to not require light for food. You can have a beautiful nano-reef with flourescent lighting too.
Most soft corals will do just fine (and be healthy) on 32W power compacts in size of a tank, 55W PC lighting would be fine also. You can always add more lighting if you wish, but you can still have a beautiful tank without metal halide lighting.

 

[fish head]

Also keep in mind the distance the coarls are to the lights. With a nano your coarls are inches from the light sourse. Because PC and florescent are diffuse light sources, it is much better when the corals are closer to the light. Metal Halide are great point source lighting. How close to the nano do you place your MH before the water starts to boil?

 

[luke]

Kelly - I did not ever claim that this is gospel!! NOTHING in this hooby is. That includes your own statements. The claim that my statements are wrong are no more factual than my own. All statements made in this BB should be taken with a grain of salt. Obviously because I hold the minority opinion on this subject most will ignore my rants about how corals need light. But when people start to really look at the biology of these creatures and realize that they can adapt to, but are not doing optimally in, 32watts of light, people will start to come around.
If you read my posts you would see that I never said that one cannot keep a tank on low light, just that it will not be as healthy, as an equally maintained tank with more light (assuming the corals kept are photosynthetic).
I also stated that one could do a deep water tank, but as I said it would be very difficult to do (especailly in a nano envirnment). This would be an exceptionally BAD idea. The amount of feedings required to maintain corals like Tubastrea, Non Photosynthetic Gorgonians and Sponges will quickly ruin the water in such a small tank.
My real point, that I have been trying to make since my first post in this topic, has been that Nanos are not a way to save money by getting $50 worth of light. Mushrooms and polyps can be kept in low light. So can anything else, but it does not mean they will be healthy or happy.
Frankly my problem is not with trying to maintain a tank on low light... it is with ising out dated rules like WPG to justify it as a high light envirnment. People putting SPS, clams, and anemones in tanks with 32watts of light, because they read here or elsewhere that these animals need 5-7 WPG (or whatever), is really sad. Most will be put in and slowly die. The animal may even grow while it is dieing. Growth does not ALWAYS imply health. People post questions all the time about their anemone, in a nano, walking all over the place and not being happy, then dieing.
This hobby, for me at least, is about the understanding and preservation of these creatures, I think people will have more sucess with higher light than low light.
Luke

 

[luke]

ijji - go for it!! You won't regret it. Especially with the sump to add extra mass to lower any heat problems that could arise. I run a 4" fan over my tank and have never once had a spike.
Fish Head - you are right that the corals are closer to the surface in a nano, but most dpn't come through the last inch of water. In that 1st inch 41% (I beleive, I'll have to look it up when I am at home) is lost. The next inch another 20% or so. This justifies using lower wattage, but not 30-50watts!!
I believe the MHs have to be in the water to get it to boil But seriously nanos are such small bodies of water that heat can be a problem. But for the same reason it can be a problem comes a really simple solution. Evaporative cooling is FAR more effective on a noa than a larger tank. More because of the surface area to vol. ratio rather than size of the water. Heat (for me at least) has never been an issue. It has however been a real problem on larger tanks I have run in the past (with simalar light wattage not WPG).
Luke
Luke

 

[coraltrapper5020]

Luke calm down. You points are heard but don't preach them. I've seen coral farmers grow spc under 3x 40watt NO lights in a 50 gallon tank. Check out <a href="http://www.GARF.org" target="_blank">www.GARF.org</a> they have great looking setups. I've ran nano tanks in the past. My biggest problem was the water changes. Its a hug change in water chem. each time you do a water change. So if you want a larger sumo to pump tp your main tank it would be a great idea.