14 gal bio cube...Hidden predator?

star27624

star27624

Member
So been having random irritating issues with my tank, fans, leaks, etc. Now it seems that I may have a hidden predator. I thought when my little lettuce guy came up headless that maybe the damsel had gotten him, and still have no signs of my mia little goby. On Monday I finally got the cleaner shrimp I had been wanting, and my first coral (just 2 mushrooms, kindof greenish). Cleaner shrimp was hanging out under the rock with the coral, the later under the big fan-ish piece of LR in the middle of my tank. Well, haven't been able to locate him since yesterday morning.
I have been hearing a fairly loud popping sound periodically at night when I turn the lights out. It sounds like it is coming from the area of the tank where I had found the db of the lettuce guy, and its also not far from where my goby liked to hang out. So, ideas? Is there possibly a mantis that hitched in, or is the damsel just a snot?
I was going to pick up my jester goby tomorrow, but if I have a predator, do not want to add anything else until I can remove it.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Loud popping could mean a Mantis or a Pistol. Others will have to chime in to suggest how to coax one out into the open so that you can verify if you do have something.
 
cowfishrule

cowfishrule

Active Member
i'd say pull the rockwork. its a 14g... how much could you possibly have.
obviously, its predatory, so it will hunt whats in your tank.
 
jerth6932

jerth6932

Active Member
1+ on a mantis... because the pistol shrimp are peacefull as far as I know, mine causes no problems at all! Mantis from what I know can be more of a pain than what they are worth! ID prior to adding anything else... would be my recomendation!
 
rotarymagic

rotarymagic

Active Member
The occasional pistol is harmful...
See what kind of mantis it is... you may end up having a cool one like a peacock. intelligent micropredators and very colorful.
 
star27624

star27624

Member
Thanks all who have responded so far. I am so not thrilled with having to tear my rock work down. I had just gotten it arranged and stable.:( But I do not want to keep paying 15-30 bucks a pop for my livestock just to provide something an expensive dinner. Have to see if I have another bucket since I know that the LR won't all fit in the one that I make my SW in.
 
jerth6932

jerth6932

Active Member
Originally Posted by star27624
http:///forum/post/2836340
Thanks all who have responded so far. I am so not thrilled with having to tear my rock work down. I had just gotten it arranged and stable.:( But I do not want to keep paying 15-30 bucks a pop for my livestock just to provide something an expensive dinner. Have to see if I have another bucket since I know that the LR won't all fit in the one that I make my SW in.
Reassembaling them is a HUGE PAIN!!! I have had to reassembal mine 4 times in the recent 2 weeks! I know what you mean by stable, cause my clutzy self caused an earthquake with in the tank, and took down the stucture! Good luck!
 
jtt

jtt

Member
id go buy a hermit crab. it will cost you $1 and if later on you see the shell has been busted open, then yeah, youve got a mantis on your hands. my brother has a mantis tank and loves it, he throws hermits in there as a treat for him, and later he finds nothing left but destroyed bits of hermit shells.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
It is DEFINITELY either a pistol or mantis shrimp, both of which are awesome and can be very very desireable to some. I think it's more likely a mantis shrimp because those are more likely to attack fish and inverts. I have a pistol shrimp in my tank with a clown, a few gobies, a tang, and a hawk. I have had ZERO fatalities. I also have two cleaner shrimp and everyone lives in harmony. Personally, that's why I think it's a mantis.
Again, if you get him out of there, don't kill him. Try to sell him becuase there are a lot of people who would be willing to buy it off you. I would buy it but I already have one. JTT is talking about my mantis shrimp - we're brothers.
If no one wants it on here or you can't keep it, try selling it to your local fish store. Also, you can watch for it at night too if you want. He'll likely come out if you put some hermits in there. Mine comes out during the day all the time.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Sorry, I had another thought - If it were a pistol shrimp, he likes to make caves underneath your rock using the sand. So if you see any openings in between the rock and the sand bed, that's another prime indicator right there.
 
doggiepuffer

doggiepuffer

Member
Generally with Mantis Shrimp, you hearing a "clicking sound" coming from the tank. However, I have seen pital shrimps attack cleaner shrimps.
 
star27624

star27624

Member
So, I took the rock work apart, put it into buckets of SW. Shook the crud out of each piece, then let them sit for a while. Other than some pods and debris, nothing else appeared. Did noticed that several of the hermit crab shells that hang out for them to change into now have holes in them. I wasn't able to get a good head count, so not sure if I am missing any hermits or not. I think that one of the shells with a hole in it belonged to one of the narsarrius(SP?) snails.
LFS has a mantis trap. Is there any other way to get this critter out?!
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by star27624
http:///forum/post/2837923
So, I took the rock work apart, put it into buckets of SW. Shook the crud out of each piece, then let them sit for a while. Other than some pods and debris, nothing else appeared. Did noticed that several of the hermit crab shells that hang out for them to change into now have holes in them. I wasn't able to get a good head count, so not sure if I am missing any hermits or not. I think that one of the shells with a hole in it belonged to one of the narsarrius(SP?) snails.
LFS has a mantis trap. Is there any other way to get this critter out?!

IT IS DEFINITELY A MANTIS. Holes in hermit crab shells is the prime indicator.
You could do a freshwater dip with your live rock. he will survive in freshwater but not for long (Maybe 5 mins?), it really makes him mad... he will come screaming out of that rock and then you've got him. That's one option. Another option is to break apart your rock until you get him out, but the sheer shock force of breaking the rock could kill him instantly, which you don't want.
I would just take a few mins and watch the rock to see if you can localize the hole he comes out of. chances are he's been watching you this whole time. The other day I was looking in my mantis tank and I noticed after like 5 minutes of searching that my mantis' eyes have been looking at me the whole time. Just the eyes, poking out of the rock work.
Mantis Shrimps are super smart, one of the smartest inverts in the ocean and I have great respect for them.
Anoother thing to do would be to get a tube feeder, like a little turkey baster. My mantis used to come out and club at it, but now he knows it means food and comes running whenever i put it in there.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Oh - last thing - One time I took my rock out of the water and held it above the tank for like 30 seconds or so, dipping it in the tank in between each time interval. If there's one thing the mantis hates more than fresh water, it's air! and if you keep the rock out of water for 15-30 seconds at a time, then dip the rock back in the water for like 2 seconds (and repeat until he comes out), he'll see the water as his window of opportunity to stay alive by going out of the rock and into the water.
Give that a try.
Man I really want to see what kind of mantis it is. If you get him out, I might be interested in him.
 
star27624

star27624

Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2837941
Man I really want to see what kind of mantis it is. If you get him out, I might be interested in him.
If I ever find the little S O B. I hope to have time to mess with taking the rock work apart and FW dunking it tomorrow or Sunday. Really sucks having this unidentified predator since the jester gobies I'd ordered are in as the LFS and probably the rest of the things I'd ordered will be in today.

Oh, and I will definitely watch my fingers. Especially since I just burned the **** out of myself this morning at work.
 
cowfishrule

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by star27624
http:///forum/post/2839226
If I ever find the little S O B. I hope to have time to mess with taking the rock work apart and FW dunking it tomorrow or Sunday. Really sucks having this unidentified predator since the jester gobies I'd ordered are in as the LFS and probably the rest of the things I'd ordered will be in today.

your fish will be ok. just keep them in your QT until you lose the mantis.
 
star27624

star27624

Member
Thanks for all of the advise and information. I thought that I'd post some pictures before I take it apart this weekend looking for the little snot.
The mushrooms didn't come out real well in the pictures. I will try more later.


 
rtspeed

rtspeed

Member
As stated above mantis shrimps are very intellegent, normally they will have 2 or more exits leading from the home. So if your not taking all the rock out of the tank at once he might be making a fool of you by waiting til you move his rock and then moving to another. I have had at least 6 different species of mantis's over the past year all being great speicmens to watch and learn from.
But i will let you in on this they can and will withstand a fresh water dip, also this is not very good for the live rock as it will cause some die off and may cause a spike.
I would do a hypo salintity dip verxes a fresh water. Mix water to 1.035- 1.040 and he will come right out.
I am sorry to here about your livestock loss but you have to look at it from his point of view, someone came and took him out of his natural enviroment and has been starving, he is only doing what he knows to survive and that to kill and eat.
On a side not most of the time is you hear a clicking noise it the tank then its a smasher type of mantis( which in my experience have very little intrest in fish as a source of food as they are not as fast as there fish hunting realtive the spearer which there diet mostly consists of fish and are lighting quick).
If I had to guess where he was in your rocks I think i would start here as it looks like door way to his burrow.
Also don't be afarid of getting hit by one that you can;t see as it will hurt like a be sting or less its just the shock that gets you at first. As for a Hemisquilla californiensis which I have been hit by which is a pretty big species about a foot and this is what happened

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