2 Overflows doable?

jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
I'm still having trouble trying to find a tank that can fit under my 55g with enough room for a fuge and sump. I have a 10g under there now but I dont think i'm gonna have enough room for the skimmer, return pump, and refugium. My only options now are to find someone who can build me a custom tank or maybe run 2 overflows and 2 return pumps if possible. Is this possible to run 2 overflows or is one just going to contradict the other. Obviously it would be cheaper to get someone to build a tank but I haven't gotten any worthy replies on that thread just yet.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
You can't run two overflows and two return pumps. The two setups will never perfectly match each other, and one will flood while the other runs dry at some point.
You'd be better off to either build a custom sump as you suggested or to link multiple tanks together using bulkheads and pipes.
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3116932
You can't run two overflows and two return pumps. The two setups will never perfectly match each other, and one will flood while the other runs dry at some point.
You'd be better off to either build a custom sump as you suggested or to link multiple tanks together using bulkheads and pipes.
Ok a light just turned on in my head. Theres reptile aquariums at the pet store that come with holes in the side. Could I possibly gut that plastic thing and silicone a piece of pvc pipe in there to flow down to the other tank. Will the reptile aquarium hold the weight of the water and sand?
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
Ok so this is what i'm thinking. I drill a hole at the bottom-side of my sump and let it drain into a hole I drilled into the top-side of my refugium. The overflow leads to the sump and the return comes from the refugium. The refugium will draw the water from the sump if one is higher than the other and the holes are drilled in the appropriate locations, correct?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Yeah but I think you ahve it backwards.
I'd drill a hole near the top of the fuge, and connect it to a hole drilled near the bottom of the sump.
Then bring your drain from the tank into the fuge, it'll drain into the fuge, then to the sump, where you can return it to the tank.
Even better, "T" off the drain line into the sump and fuge. Include valves so you can regulate the amount of water flowing into each side. You'll want to orient the pipes so that one side is wide open (the sump) and the fuge has a valve. That way the fuge will get whatever is fed to it, and the sump gets "the rest."
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3117512
Yeah but I think you ahve it backwards.
I'd drill a hole near the top of the fuge, and connect it to a hole drilled near the bottom of the sump.
Then bring your drain from the tank into the fuge, it'll drain into the fuge, then to the sump, where you can return it to the tank.
Even better, "T" off the drain line into the sump and fuge. Include valves so you can regulate the amount of water flowing into each side. You'll want to orient the pipes so that one side is wide open (the sump) and the fuge has a valve. That way the fuge will get whatever is fed to it, and the sump gets "the rest."
I see what you mean about where the holes are placed. There would likely be better flow if they were reversed of what I originally thought. Thanks!
I would drain to the sump first to skim the aquarium water, then drop that water down to the refugium. That way im not skimming up any amphipods or copepods that will live in the refuge. Is that the way ppl normally do it? I plan on running ot home depot either tommorrow or saturday and getting a saw to start drilling some tanks! Also does anyone have any drawings or links to drawings on how to build a sump/refuge setup I plan on doing here?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
The problem is that evaporation loss will occur on the last chamber in the system, so that means that if you drain into your sump first, then the fuge, the evaporation loss will occur in the fuge instead of the sump where it should.
Ideally, you'd use a 3 compartment system, where the fuge on one side and the skimmer on the other side drain into a center return section where the pump is. That way you'll get the best of both worlds. You will have some pods go through the skimmer in your scenario, but I doubt it'll be a big problem.
I don't want to bust your bubble, but home improvement stores don't carry glass cutting hole saws, you'll need to special order it online.
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
I don't have very much room at all. The length is not an issue at about 4' but I only have approx. 10" width to work with :(
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
Alrighty! So i've been brainstorming alot lately and I think I have a new idea!
Ok first things first is to get a well flowing overflow and place it in the middle of the display tank. Meanwhile I have 2 10g tanks under my stand. One tank holds my skimmer and return pump, the other holds my refuge and return pump. To get the water to each tank I split the water from the overflow via t-fitting or y-fitting. This way water will be distributed evenly to each tank via the overflow. How can I make sure that water is being distributed evenly between the sump and the refugium?
Fact of the matter is that I have 2 10 gallons to use as a refugium and a sump with skimmer. I have a Vertex 100 skimmer that pretty much takes up a full 10g in itself.
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
To regulate flow I could use valves right after the y-fitting to make sure each side gets the same amount of flow.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jrse7en
http:///forum/post/3118546
This way water will be distributed evenly to each tank via the overflow. How can I make sure that water is being distributed evenly between the sump and the refugium?

Short answer: You can't. It's impossible.
You can never balance them to where it will work. In such a setup, you *might* be able to get it balanced to the point where you'd be able to walk away, but it'd be out of whack within a few minutes/hours.
The problem is two fold. First, the drains are gravity fed, Ball valves are not precise enough to make the tiny adjustments to the flow rates necessary to achieve equilibrium between the two sides.
More importantly though is that pumps are not constant flow devices. As gunk builds up on the impeller, as voltage from the wall outlet varies, etc etc etc, the flow rates will vary by miniscule amounts.
What will end up happening sooner or later is that one of the sides will not receive as much water as the other. The side that receives too little water (or whose pump is slightly "ahead" of the drain rate) will run dry, while the side that receives too much will flood.
The other possibility is that with valves on your drain lines, you will not drain water out of the tank as fast as it's delivered, causing the drain lines to back up the tank to flood.
Even if you managed to get the flow set up apparently perfect, any miniscule difference will cause it to get slowly and slowly more out of whack, until it floods while you're asleep or at work.
The bottom line is that you cannot, in any scenario, have more than ONE gravity drain, in the case of a sump, everything has to be inline and tied together, and if you use valves on your drain lines, you have to arrange them so that one of the valves is wide open all the time. You cannot have two separate drain and return loops. Try it and you are guaranteed to flood.
 
jrse7en

jrse7en

Member
I'm taking my tanks to the LFS to get drilled tonight. He reccommended I use soft pipe to tie them together. Anyone ever have two 10g tanks drilled?
 
fender

fender

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jrse7en
http:///forum/post/3121110
I'm taking my tanks to the LFS to get drilled tonight. He reccommended I use soft pipe to tie them together. Anyone ever have two 10g tanks drilled?
I've drilled the side of them with a dremel. 10gallons are some mighty thin glass. Good luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top