2 Questions for semi-new tank....

W

weatherby

Guest
Hi all,
I have a couple other posts around the boards, though I'd still consider myself a newbie to the hobby. I have a couple of questions I hope someone can offer an opinion or advice on. To start off I'll just give a brief rundown of my setup in case it might be important to the questions that follow.
Hardware:
-55Gal glass tank
-airstone type skimmer (Red Sea but not sure of specific part)
-a largeish box filter (One of those whisper type filters though no bio wheel).
-a canister filter (Unknown make though I can find out from original owner if need be)
-a 175gph power head (Hagen Aqua Clear 30 I believe is the name)
Livestock:
Pink Skunk clown
Yellow Tail Damsel
2x Lyre Tail damsel
Bangaii Cardinal
Green Brittle star
Bahama Star (I have a post elsewhere about this guy)
Rose Urchin
Feather Duster
3x Hermits
2x Blue leg hermits
Florida Condi
Pink Tip Haitian Condi
Long Tentacle Anemone
Lighting:
2x 40w fluorescents (not sure what the one bulb is as it's the old bulb but the second is an 18K Power Glow bulb to try and provide more light to the tank while waiting on the MH assembly).
**Before I get
I am well aware that the tank won't support my live stock as is, which is why I'm rushing to try and do whatever I can to correct that. Hence the questions below and my work on a MH assembly.**
SO
My questions are as follows:
1) I have some lava rock on hand that I've been soaking in salted water for over 24 hrs now and I was wondering if I should continue on this endeavor, or if I should just dump it all and find something more conventional for base rock? I was going to purchase some live rock at a LFS but it was going to cost me quite a bit for a 7lb rock, (something like $57) and it just wasn't going to cut it size wise. So, I noticed in another tank they had some lava rock being used as base rock and they also sold it, (but were out at that time). Then later I noticed at Petland, *****, PetSupplies Plus etc, that they sell sculpted lava rock arches and such for salt water and fresh water aquariums. SO, I got to thinking and came across a few nice sized chunks of the stuff and scrubbed it by hand and then scrubbed it with a power-washer to clean all the surface stuff, then submerged it in salt water to saturate it and hopefully kill off anything too small and too deep to reach myself.
Can anyone tell me: Will this work? Can I use commonly found lava rock as base rock and then seed it with good quality live rock once in the tank?
2) Can anyone give me a quick ID on the algae in the photos below? It's a purple-ish shade under my lighting and has just recently been noticed on the sand as well as the bank of the tank. I at first had hoped it was coralline but, I'm pretty sure it's not. The stuff on the sand I believe has been there but was previously covered by green hair algae which was disturbed by the addition of a 175gph power head I just purchased, as well as my sea hare which has only been in the tank for a week or so now.
This tank I would describe as very young, though the sand is old. My lighting is very poor, in my opinion, and I'm working on upgrading to MH to sustain my anemones as well as foster coralline growth.
Any advice or suggestions on either of these would be GREATLY appreciated!!!! :help:



 
volitan_fa

volitan_fa

Member
Your question about the lava rock is one I've wondered about too. I don't see why you couldn't use porous lava rock, so long as there isn't some chemical property of the rock that would hurt your fish.
As for the algae....I wish I could help you out there.
Sounds like you're off to a good start, but ya got a long road ahead...good luck!
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by volitan_fa
Your question about the lava rock is one I've wondered about too. I don't see why you couldn't use porous lava rock, so long as there isn't some chemical property of the rock that would hurt your fish.
As for the algae....I wish I could help you out there.
Sounds like you're off to a good start, but ya got a long road ahead...good luck!
Yeah, I don't see why there WOULD be as I'd venture to say that a good deal of Lava gets deposited on the ocean floors, especially in places like Hawaii and there are tons of fish & inverts there... :happyfish
Course, that's an open system, and I'm not sure the impact on a closed system as of yet. Also, in support of it's use, as I mentioned: PetLand, *****, PetSmart, PetSupplies Plus, and I'm sure other retailers all sell lava rock for use in aquariums, fresh and marine, so, that sort of implies, (though not necessarily I suppose), that it would be safe to use. You'd think it'd make excellent base for live rock as it is MEGA porous and should have plenty of surface area for all the water to flow through. I'd like to see the stuff get covered in all sorts of live rock organisms, though I know that'll take it being seeded with quality live rock and the application of proper lighting and water conditions, so.... We'll see. :joy:
Thanks for the kind words. Hope to keep on this road, (the marine aquarium one that is), for a good long time to come!
***)
 
renogaw

renogaw

Active Member
supposedly the problem with lava rock is precisely what you said==lots of minerals in it. in the ocean they get washed away. in your tank they don't.
the algae looks like cyano.
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by renogaw
supposedly the problem with lava rock is precisely what you said==lots of minerals in it. in the ocean they get washed away. in your tank they don't.
the algae looks like cyano.

So does that mean that it's not good for base rock after all? Course, I've been concerned a bit about sulfur and other minerals that might be connected with volcanic debris, but just not sure if this is a concern for a rock that's not like limestone (ie, it'll just dissolve eventually in water), but then, I'm no geologist either....
As for the Algae: I was afraid of that.
 
saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
i agree with Renogaw, lava rock is full of minerals that replenish soils on land with the most fertile lands that this planet has to offer. all of those nutrients in a tank would surely lead to blooms and possibly even leach out toxins to dangerous levels. i wouldnt risk it, personally.
looks like the start of cyano on that sand bed, if it is feathery and light and silky, and can be blown away with a turkey baster, then it definitely is. if you have purple spots on the glass that are hard to scrape off, that is coralline.
 
K

kalied20

Guest
I would keep an eye on that green brittle star. Make sure you are feeding regularly. They have been known to be predatory. They can catch sleeping fish and eat them. All other brittles seem to be fine. I have researched them alot before I went with a black brittle and two serpent stars for my 90 gallon.
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by kalied20
I would keep an eye on that green brittle star. Make sure you are feeding regularly. They have been known to be predatory. They can catch sleeping fish and eat them. All other brittles seem to be fine. I have researched them alot before I went with a black brittle and two serpent stars for my 90 gallon.
The brittle doesn't seem to be a problem thus far, but the Bahama is a real .. <insert descriptor here>. If I don't catch him at the right time to feed him he'll start to feed on the algae on the glass, and won't take real food. But then later he'll get pissy and go looking for something meaty. :mad:
But as far as the 'purple', I don't think my tank's ready to produce coralline just yet, so I'm betting it's Cyano. Just added a 175gph power head so hopefully that'll stir things up enough to keep it from taking over.
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by saltn00b
i agree with Renogaw, lava rock is full of minerals that replenish soils on land with the most fertile lands that this planet has to offer. all of those nutrients in a tank would surely lead to blooms and possibly even leach out toxins to dangerous levels. i wouldnt risk it, personally.
looks like the start of cyano on that sand bed, if it is feathery and light and silky, and can be blown away with a turkey baster, then it definitely is. if you have purple spots on the glass that are hard to scrape off, that is coralline.

Just so I'm not misrepresenting what I have:
What I have is some hunks of 'lava rock' of the kind used in landscaping. In fact, that's what it's been doing. It's been scrubbed with a power washer and scrub brush and has been soaking for close to 48hrs in heavily salted water in my basement. I highly doubt this is 'real lava rock' and believe it to be man-made landscaping rock.
This then raises the question: Does this make ANY difference? :) Or is it still not going to do anything but kill all my fish and make me have to completely tear the tank down and start from scratch? I don't mean to sound cheap, but frankly if this free rock is as good as it appears on the surface, (VERY porous etc), then I'd rather use it and save up for some MH lighting, a FUGE/sump etc than have to shell out large sums of $ on 'generic' rock that'll be buried under quality LR anyway. I'd like to get rock in there to start growing bacteria to filter out my nitrates etc ASAP, and I plan on purchasing high quality live rock to help seed any base rock I put in, but if I have to order base rock from someplace too, it'll take that much longer to get any usable rock in to the tank.
SO, although I know there's no real shortcuts in endeavors like this, I also know that sometimes what's laying around in your own back yard can sometimes be put to use in new ways thus making the most of every $.01...
 
saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
if its something from your back yard and you end up using it , i would recommend boiling them first, to kill anything on it. even then, i still wouldnt do it, there a lot of rocks commonly used in FW displays or other that are very bad for SW tanks, they leach harmful minerals into the water, a lot of which you likely have no way of testing for. you have two cheap options, buy cheap base rock, or even cheaper 'dead' rock that is dry and in a bin somewhere. this stuff goes very cheap. or make your own LR, and you can get creative doing that, making tunnels and caves etc
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by saltn00b
if its something from your back yard and you end up using it , i would recommend boiling them first, to kill anything on it. even then, i still wouldnt do it, there a lot of rocks commonly used in FW displays or other that are very bad for SW tanks, they leach harmful minerals into the water, a lot of which you likely have no way of testing for. you have two cheap options, buy cheap base rock, or even cheaper 'dead' rock that is dry and in a bin somewhere. this stuff goes very cheap. or make your own LR, and you can get creative doing that, making tunnels and caves etc
Ok, that's sort of what I was wondering. Needless to say, the reason it's not already IN the tank is because I've had reservations about using it at all as well.... :notsure:
If I DO go ahead and use it, I'll boil the living <beep> out of it for sure. I'm also going to go looking and see what I can find at lfs.
Though I know the one LFS told me that lava rock is what they use for non-live rock in salt water.... course, I don't trust them so much. SO, I'll look around and see what I can find. Thanks!
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by volitan_fa
Do you have any pics of the lava rock? I'm curious to see if we're talking about the same kind...
As for the photo, not at the moment. I'm at work but can take a pic of it when I get home this evening. Though, it's the dark reddish brown hyper-porous stuff you see in landscaping, though just big hunks instead of the little nuggets.
Here's a link to a landscaping company that sells red lava rock boulders:
Link
The ones I have are actually bigger from what I can tell, they're like a foot long or very close to it, one might be 18" in length... so they're rather large...
hope that helps!
 
debdeb

debdeb

Member
Welcome to the board! I'm new to this hobby myself. I've had a 37 gallon reef set up for a year now and I'm working on setting up my new 180 gallon reef that we bought recently. I've learned so much from this board, but have a lot more to learn.
First, I'm not flaming or anything but take the anemones back to the LFS right away. Unless you are going to be setting up your MH lights in the next few days, I would be worried about their survival. I have 3 X 65 watt power compacts over my tank and I don't feel like it's enough light for any anemone. You don't want them to die and if they do, they can pollute your whole tank killing everything.
Live rock is probably the most expensive investment next to lighting. I'll need approx. 250 to 300 lbs for my new tank. I've got close to 65 lbs in my 37 gallon but that doesn't even make a dent in it. I'm going to make some of the base rock and caves I want myself with the aragocrete mix. I've heard it's less than $.25 / lb to make, but I haven't verified that yet. If you don't want to do that, your LFS should have some lace rock that makes great base rock. It's a nice calcareous rock that's safe and cheap, only about $1.19 / lb. at my LFS. I used it as base rock in my 37 gallon and it is nicely covered in coraline and looks great now. Check on line for your live rock. I haven't bought any but I hear a lot of good things said about this sites live rock. Just make sure you cure any that you buy before putting it into your display. Then I would only add part of it at a time checking all of your parameters before adding more.
I would look into more water flow. 1 powerhead probably isn't enough circulation. You should be running at least 10X your tank volume, preferrably 20X. Add up what your filters and the 175gph powerhead give you and see what you have. I have about 765gph (not including skimmer) running in my 37gallon.
Another way to pick up some live rock reasonably is to check out your local paper. You may find someone selling their setup and you can pick up stuff very cheap. That's how I bought my 180 gallon setup (tank, stand, canopy, skimmer, mh lights, sump, everything) for $700. Unfortunately it was a FO tank with some base rock in it so I didn't get any live sand or rock out of the deal.
I know the expense is mind blowing. I read the average cost is about $30 to $50 per gallon for a reef set up. At that rate my 180 gallon is going to cost me....................... :scared:
 
volitan_fa

volitan_fa

Member
Originally Posted by Weatherby
As for the photo, not at the moment. I'm at work but can take a pic of it when I get home this evening. Though, it's the dark reddish brown hyper-porous stuff you see in landscaping, though just big hunks instead of the little nuggets.
Here's a link to a landscaping company that sells red lava rock boulders:
Link
The ones I have are actually bigger from what I can tell, they're like a foot long or very close to it, one might be 18" in length... so they're rather large...
hope that helps!

Yup that's the stuff I was thinking of. I love the look of it and wondered when I first started if I could use it, but kinda put it in the back of my mind...
 
griffindad

griffindad

New Member
I have a 112 gal tank and started with a combination of LR and Base Rock purchased from a LFS. I recently added about 60 pounds of lava rock I picked up for free at a local volcano. It has been in my tank now for a month and so far there has been no change to my tank. My fish are all happy and no change in parameters. Of coarse all lava might not be the same.
 
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