2nd day of hyposalinity/flame died

[carrie]

Here is a recap: 2 tanks
1 main tank 75 gallons treating with FO, hyposalinity (powder blue, copperband, flame hawk, clowns & damsels). Wet/dry eheim prof.system, protein skimmer, uv sterilizer, carbon still in.
other tank w/invertebrates daily checking levels & adjusting if necessary(pulled them from main tank upon beginning hypo). Only have penguin biowheel & heater.
I'm in my 2nd day of hyposalinity. Salinity reading 1.012. Prior to treating w/hypo I was using a "reef safe" product for 11days w/no ich improvement. I removed this product by water change & added carbon so the product has been totally removed.
I have previously used copper in main tank to cure ich about 6mos ago(i saw this question asked by Terry when I searched the hyposalinity).
Q=Is using copper in the past in my tank a bad thing If i lower the salinity to 1.009? I have read in other posts the copper could leak out of corals...
My powder blue tang is the host fish and yesterday while lowering the salinity to 1.012 over the course of 5 hours by 1 gallon at a time, the powder blue just FREAKED OUT! Started scratching terribly!!!! when salinity was at 1.017 he was fine.
I do believe this scratching from my powder blue is to the ich that has imbedded in his body. This morning he is still swimming pretty bad around the tank.
Q= is this normal behavior if ich has become really bad affecting the fish? If so, will lowering the salinity really make a difference or should I stop salinity and do the copper?
Q=lowering salinity in main tank this won't kill my biological, right. I believe I read this in other posts, but just double checking.
Q=I'm currently running the protein skimmer, is that ok?
Q=I still have carbon in, is that ok?
If there is still traces of copper in my tank all my fish are not being affect at this time (I don't think) they are bouant and swimming around, still eating and acting as they "normally" do.
Please note, yesterday my flame angel died.
My guess was the reef safe product in my tank for 11 days did not do anything except help those ich just to multiple over and over thus killing my flame. slowly killing the flame's immune system.
I can't think of anything else to tell you. No LFS here reccommends this method. Here in Illinois everyone just treats with copper, I guess. We are confident this will work based on other's reco'dations from Terry, Beth, etc..just need some more questions answered.
Any suggestions, comments, corrections, would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[carrie]

Additional information:
When changing water I used RO from LFS.
PH in main tank: 8.1 Temp in main tank: 77
*We did have to adjust the PH using PH down, from LFS RO water.
Ph in RO water: 8.1 Temp in RO water: 76
Current salinity reading: 1.012
Tonight I will continue to change the water and get the salinity to 1.009.

 

[beth]

Q=Is using copper in the past in my tank a bad thing If i lower the salinity to 1.009? I have read in other posts the copper could leak out of corals...
Copper is a bad thing for corals and other inverts as they have no tolerance for copper. Yes, copper could leach out of rocks or even the silicone sealant of your tank, but again, this leaching will not harm the fish---it is a negative factor for reef tanks or any tank containing corals or inverts. The lowering of the specific gravity [salinity] to 1.009 will have no effect on whatever copper you might have in your tank. This factor is unrelated.
Referencing the Powder Blue: Q= is this normal behavior if ich has become really bad affecting the fish? If so, will lowering the salinity really make a difference or should I stop salinity and do the copper?
NO definitely do not stop hyposalinity and switch to copper. Hyposalinity is just as effective as copper and it is safer for this. If you really feel that the tang is experiencing difficulty adjusting to the drop in salinity, then go a bit slower. When dropping the salinity the hobbyist must observe the fishes' adjustment to the new water conditions and adjust the acclimation process accordingly. What is more likely happening is that the fish is suffering from the parasite and it is bothering him a great deal. This should improve soon, just be patient and try not to worry. Hypo is safe!
Q=lowering salinity in main tank this won't kill my biological, right. I believe I read this in other posts, but just double checking.
Well, it certainly won’t kill it like using copper would! Copper devastates the bio-filter. If you have live sand, however, expect die-off of infauna.
Q=I'm currently running the protein skimmer, is that ok?
Perfectly fine. The more filtration the better!
Q=I still have carbon in, is that ok?
Same as above.
Most LFS don’t even know about hyposalinity. You will be able to advise your LFS that hyposalinity DOES WORK!
Additionally, feed your fish garlic soaked food during this process [if they will eat it]. Feed well during the illness, without polluting your tank. Be sure to conduct water testing daily to ensure good water quality and to maintain proper pH.
Not to worry, all should go well.

 

[carrie]

The water I purchased from my LFS is NOT RO. It is DI. I just double checked this w/my hubby.
Carbon was only used AFTER my copper treatment was concluded. Brand name of copper: Safetest. Actual copper medicine: Seacure. I have not checked the tank for copper as of yet, I will do this when I get home from work.
My invetebrates are not in the tank now, they are in a seprate tank. I am checking the levels, daily and will adjust according via water changes. When I ran copper in my MAIN tank the invetebrates went to my LFS until the copper treatment concluded (this was about 6mos ago).
Currently while using the hyposalinity-the PH has always remained the same in the tank and in the new water I'm adding to tank, and so the temperature. If the ph was different in the freshwater, I added a PH down depending on what the reading was, let the water sit for about 1/2hour. I have a digtial PH meter that I use to measure PH.
I did search on this website the hyposalinity and read as much info as possible. I did read another post about the copper possible leaking and not to lower the ph. So I made sure when beginning this hyposalinity to really be accurate.
If I recall from my search: Tang is very sensitive. Lowering salinity his color may become lighter. All my fish probably have stronger appetites but I shouldn't overfeed them.
Thank you both Beth and Terry for your support and help! I'm just nervous trying something new...
PS: Terry, I read on another post someone asking about copepods if they can survive hypo. Currently I do have copepods in my tank (they hiched a ride w/the powder blue tang. I'll keep you posted on the status. Currently salinity is 1.012 and as of 6:30am the copepods were still alive.

 

[beth]

Terry, thank you so much for the vote of confidence! I did know, however, that copper could be more of a problem as the water becomes less saline [due to pH]. However, there are no rocks in this tank, because Carrie removed all rocks, and she has done a complete water change... or that is my understanding, right Carrie? Additionally, the copper was in the tank 6 mos ago not recently.
Additionally, she is running carbon filtration, which should pull out a good deal of any copper residual from any leaching.
Carrie, a copper test kit should be used during this process, but I'd be surprised if you have a problem with copper. Maintaining good water quality during treatment and continuing the carbon filtration should take care of any potential problems in this area.

 

[carrie]

Good Morning,
I did test my copper last night on my MAIN tank and there was no reading-yeah! The copper I had in my tank was about 6mo and my carbon is still in my tank.
I actually found a glass hydrometer, and as predicted by both Beth and Terry my plastic swing arm was off by 1 point. So my salininty is at 1.009/1.0085.
Funny thing, my PH dropped to 8.0. When I did all my water changes yesterday, the PH was at 8.1. I will keep it monitored and adjust accordingly.
I want to thank both Beth and Terry for all your help in my personal questions. I have read previous posts on this website about hyposalinity and I must say, I am very greatful to you both. The first way I was treating the tank with reef safe product (due to invertebrates in my tank) was unsucessful.
If I had not found this BB and received help, I would have broken my tank down and quit this hobby. Please keep this BB up and running it is EXTREMELY beneficial!
More fish info:
In just 2 days my powder blue tang is already showing signs of improvement. He's not swimming around crazily. My copperband is not as friendly as normal, but I think he needs to adjust to the lower salinity. My yellow tail damsels are 1/2 white, due to the lower salinity, I'm guessing.
My crabs in my 2nd tank are doing well, eating and I did 4 gallon water change last night due to increase ammonia.
Oh yeah, Terry this morning my salinity is at 1.009 and the copepods are still alive. We'll see how long they survive.
I'll keep ya posted!

 

[beth]

Carrie: It is always good to know that my advise helps, thank you.
Also, you might want to adjust the pH now in your hospital SLOWLY to the level that you have in your main tank. It is not good to make large jumps in pH, just as it is not good to drop the salinity too fast. The stress that you are still seeing on your fish may also be due to the lower pH. What was the pH in the main tank? In any case, try to raise it. I'm glad there's no copper problem.