300 shark/ray tank filtration...

[jdragunas]

Ok, this tank is still about 4 years away, but i wanted to start planning now. I've done a lot of research on inhabitants, and i've decided on 2 bamboo sharks, a california ray, and a few other fish. However, i have a question on the filtration...
I have a 55 gallon FOWLR tank right now, and i have a 75 gallon wet/dry filter on it. I like having the filter that's rated higher than the tank. So for my 300g tank, i wanted to have a 400 gallon filter. However, these are very hard to come by. I was wondering if this would be plausible... i was thinking about getting 2 200 wet/dry filters for this tank... that's 400 gallons of filtration, which is good, IMO. However, my hubby has this crazy idea that having a filter on each side of the tank will only filter 1/2 of the water... i told him he's crazy, but he said that because of the currents and everything, the two sides of the tank will filter, but the water in the middle of the tank will not... even though i explained to him the principal of diffusion (that even if it does filter only 1/2 of the water, the ammonia, -ates, and -ites will diffuse throughout the "clean" water, and it will all again contain the same amounts, and therefore, the filter will be doing it's job...), he still wants your guys' opinions. Can someone please vouch for me that this will be adequate filtration?

 

[jcrim]

The filtration sounds like more than necessary... a 400 gallon filter for a 300 gallon tank. Your water quality would be excellent but it seems like overkill to me. JMO.

 

[jdragunas]

well i plan on having quite a few fish in it. i was told to always have a filter that will handle more than my tank... this way, there's less maintenance involved.
Do you think wet/dry is the best filtration for a shark/ray tank?
Also, i've tried to find out as much as i can about closed loops, but i'm still in the dark. I know it's a form of water movement, but how does it work? i don't want to have powerheads in the tank, so i figured this may be the best way to go about it...

 

[jcrim]

Personally I run a 40 gallon refugium with a large chamber for bio balls. The bio balls generally give off some nitrate so the macro helps limit that. I also run a protein skimmer and uv sterilizer. This system works well... although I only have 6 fish. If you go with a 100 gallon filter, this would give you plenty of filtration for more bio load. Invest in a good protein skimmer too. I'm not sure about the closed loop system.

 

[jdragunas]

yeah, well the wet/dry filters i'm looking at have a built-in skimmer each, so that'd be two. I just want to get away with as little water changes as possible...
How many power heads do you have, and how do you have them set up? You have a 250g, right?

 

[jcrim]

I have a 220. I have my main pump (3000 gph) and another pump (2200 gph) circulating the tank. Both pumps are facing similar directions in my tank in the top 1/3. The current seems to be circular, with the top portion going from right to left and the bottom portion going from left to right. My overflow is in the center, although I'd rather have an overflow in one/both corners.

 

[mitzel]

over kill on a tank like your talking about is fine . you still need to do regular water changes. and the idea of having two filters is a little too over kill. one big wet/dry with a good skimmer and a refugeium will be good . definatly get as good a skimmer as possible. and clean it daily.

 

[mitzel]

oh and you could do a closed loop with a bigger pump 2000+ gph and plumb it so it pulls fresh water from the top and circulates it to the bottom. this is just done with pvc pipe.

 

[jdragunas]

ok, so maybe just one 300 gallon wet/dry... would that be sufficient?
Jcrim, the main thing i'm worried about is not enough flow on the sand, and getting build up. But the sharks and rays will keep the sandbed pretty stirred, right?

 

[jdragunas]

mitzel, i've only ever heard the term "closed loop". How exactly does it work. I understand it circulates the water, but if it's all pvc piping, how does that work? do you have pics or anything? I'm so confused!

 

[jcrim]

Originally Posted by jdragunas
Jcrim, the main thing i'm worried about is not enough flow on the sand, and getting build up. But the sharks and rays will keep the sandbed pretty stirred, right?
Sharks and rays will generally stir only the surface of the sand bed. My shark digs also, but only in certain spots.

 

[jdragunas]

i'm not worried about keeping the bottom stirred, just as long as nothing settles on the top of the sand... that's why i was curious about a closed loop... i have detrius buildup in my 55 gallon tank b/c my waterflow doesn't properly cover the surface of my sandbed... i'll have to work on that, but i'm not sure where i'm going to put my powerheads to do that... my LR is setup weird... anyway, i'm way off track.
Well thanks for all of your help

 

[mitzel]

a closed loop is a pump that is dedicated to just moving water around. it can be located anywhere inside or outside the tank. you'll plumb it with Pvc pipe to take water from the top of the tank and pump it back in to the bottom of the tank. it can be set up anyway you want/need it to be . it has no filter conected to it. Just a simple one like I made is a power head that is hooked to a 6 foot pipe it lays on the bottom under and behind my rocks . It has holes drilled every 6 inches and it works fair enough to keep stuff from getting stuck in the back of the rocks. You can make it as complex or simple as needed.You can make it so it will stir up the water good and you wont need to worry about only filtering half the water . I would definatly plan on still doing water changes . sharks and rays are nasty and will make a big mess. I will draw up a picture of a closed loop and post it later .

 

[jdragunas]

i plan on still doing water changes, i'd just much rather them be monthly rather than bi-weekly, or weekly... anything i can do to extend the time between water changes...
and a pic would be great!!!
So the closed loop is made of pvc piping, with holes drilled in the pvc to allow water to exit, creating water flow... That sounds much easier to understand! Would this work: my tank is going to be 96", so i'll have a 7.5' piece of pvc, to be setup like yours. I'll have holes drilled in it pointing up toward the ceiling, AND out toward the front of the tank. That way, it will keep the sand clean, and move the water from the bottom to the top. How does that sound?

 

[jdragunas]

oh yeah, do you have a bare spot where the closed loop is? You know, where the water flows out, wouldn't it make a "bald" spot in the sand?

 

[mitzel]

only if you point it in to the sand . you can direct it to flow at a slight angle and it will be fine. the more holes the bigger the pump. the mathmatic formula is gph of the pump devided by the number of holes and that tells you roughly what each holes flow rate is .

 

[jdragunas]

ok cool. Now, since i'm going to have more tubing and more holes than you, i'd need a bigger powerhead. Could i have a ph at both ends of the PVC? And how do i fit the PVC onto the powerhead in the first place? just a heads up, i'm mechanically retarded...

 

[mitzel]

Originally Posted by jdragunas
ok cool. Now, since i'm going to have more tubing and more holes than you, i'd need a bigger powerhead. Could i have a ph at both ends of the PVC? And how do i fit the PVC onto the powerhead in the first place? just a heads up, i'm mechanically retarded...
You'll be able to get fittings that are threaded and you can just twist them on to the power head. you'll have to get some serious power heads to move the water . but they should work

 

[sw-newbe]

Originally Posted by jdragunas
i plan on still doing water changes, i'd just much rather them be monthly rather than bi-weekly, or weekly... anything i can do to extend the time between water changes...
and a pic would be great!!!
So the closed loop is made of pvc piping, with holes drilled in the pvc to allow water to exit, creating water flow... That sounds much easier to understand! Would this work: my tank is going to be 96", so i'll have a 7.5' piece of pvc, to be setup like yours. I'll have holes drilled in it pointing up toward the ceiling, AND out toward the front of the tank. That way, it will keep the sand clean, and move the water from the bottom to the top. How does that sound?
Go to "melesreefvdotcom" He has explicit directions and a video on how it works. I have a 55 gal tank and built one a few months ago. It works great, gives me about 7 seconds of alternating flow in each direction.