55G Sump Build

[2quills]

Well I decided to start working on the sump for my 125G DT today. The sump is a 55G tank that I picked up from a friend of mine for $0 dollars

. Went out to HD and stopped by the LFS to pick up the supplies. I know it isn't the prettiest thing in the world but it's my first one. It's still not done, I need to finish making the supports for the media racks. And hindsight is 20/20 but I'm contemplating taking the baffle out of the fuge section and making it a little bit taller. All in all though I think it's turning out OK.
I haven't seen many that were done this way but I wanted to go with a 4 chamber system in order to run some various media if I ever wanted to. From left to right the system works like this...
1. Drain from the tank comes into first chamber where 2 different types of media could be used.
2. Protien skimmer chamber
3. Return chamber
4. Refugium.
DT will be drilled for 2 1-1/2" bulkheads, each having their own 700gph overflow box for 1400gph draining capability. One of the drains will be split with a seperate feed for the fuge to be supplied with dirty water.
Still unsure which pump I want to go with for my return. I'm thinking about either the Mag12 (1200gph) wich will give me approximately 1100gph with 5 feet of head, or the Ehiem 1262 (900gph) which will give me about 700gph. I would rather have an Ehiem but I don't know if it's going to give me enough flow for my 125G DT. Anybody have any thoughts on this???
Thanks in advance.

 

[acrylic51]

Looks pretty good for your so called first jobt ^. I think the Eheim would give you plenty.....Your not using the return pump for the flow inside the tank....your using it to return the water to the DT. Your flow should come from inside the tank either from a CL or PH's. If you do a little searching on the other big forum you'll see the Eheim is usually pump for a tank this size easily for many reasons over the Mag. Nothing against the Mag, just I think the Eheim is a better pump.
What type of media are you considering running? Media use is better served if it's run in the "Active" mode rather than the "Passive" mode.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3276349
Looks pretty good for your so called first jobt ^. I think the Eheim would give you plenty.....Your not using the return pump for the flow inside the tank....your using it to return the water to the DT. Your flow should come from inside the tank either from a CL or PH's. If you do a little searching on the other big forum you'll see the Eheim is usually pump for a tank this size easily for many reasons over the Mag. Nothing against the Mag, just I think the Eheim is a better pump.
What type of media are you considering running? Media use is better served if it's run in the "Active" mode rather than the "Passive" mode.
Haha...thanks, it's not quite as nice as the one that you built but hopefully it will do the job. Sorry, I guess I worded it wrong, it was late lastnight and I was tired...what I meant to say was if the Ehiem would be enough circulation. Flow inside the tank will come from 2 coralia evolotions and once I start doing reef I'll get a wave maker controler for them. Deffinately want to go with the Ehiem because everything I've read seems to tell me that they are pretty much the Cadillacs of pumps so to speak. And since there isn't a very huge price difference between the two then why not go with the best?
I figure I'll let the tank determine which type of media I'll use (if any). I just wanted the sump to be flexible if I ever had to use like some phosban or Pura pads...etc. For the most part I'll probably just have some basic filter pads in there for particulate matter. The racks are going to be removable and I'm also going to cut a piece of acrylic and make a hole large enough to support a filter sock. I may even use the sock primarly since there is virtually no chance for the water to bybass it.
After sleeping on it a bit lastnight I deffinately think that I'd like to make a few modifications to it today. Want to make the baffle in the fuge taller so that I can have a nice DSB and room for some LR and Macro. Might even shorten the first baffle/divider where the media racks are so it will be easier to remove them. Hopefull will get some more pics tonight.

 

[gill again68]

Looks really good but if I may...... I had a 29 gal with plexi baffles and it was all good till one day the glass in my sump cracked. I believe it was the plexi swelling. I know you can read both success and failure with these but I had a failure and the only thing I can blame is the plexi. That taught me enough to say I will never do that again. You can purchase some glass for little to nothing and have it cut to size. Just a suggestion. Good luck.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by Gill again68
http:///forum/post/3276408
Looks really good but if I may...... I had a 29 gal with plexi baffles and it was all good till one day the glass in my sump cracked. I believe it was the plexi swelling. I know you can read both success and failure with these but I had a failure and the only thing I can blame is the plexi. That taught me enough to say I will never do that again. You can purchase some glass for little to nothing and have it cut to size. Just a suggestion. Good luck.
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate the heads-up. I have read about some of the successes and failurs of using plexi with glass. When I finish cut the baffles I tried to leave a little bit of a gap so that they wouldn't be to tight when I fit them in there. I'm hoping that this will be enough to help keep the tank from cracking like yours did. I'm also a little concerned with how much the baffles are going to bow. Since it is my first build I guess I'll consider it all experimental. If it fails then I'll definately know better on the next go around. Once I order the new pump I'm going to fill it and run it for a couple of weeks to see how it does and if I don't like the way things are looking then I'll probably go out and purchas some glass.
cheers

 

[acrylic51]

What thickness plexi did you use? The plexi will absorb water, but at what specs I couldn't tell you.....As long as the water pressure on both sides of the baffles are even you shouldn't have to much of an issue of bowing, but when the pressure or height is greater on 1 side you might. Did you rough the edges of the plexi up before your siliconed them in place? 1/2" acrylic would be really nice and give little bow in the sump.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3276529
What thickness plexi did you use? The plexi will absorb water, but at what specs I couldn't tell you.....As long as the water pressure on both sides of the baffles are even you shouldn't have to much of an issue of bowing, but when the pressure or height is greater on 1 side you might. Did you rough the edges of the plexi up before your siliconed them in place? 1/2" acrylic would be really nice and give little bow in the sump.
Well I got it from HD and the thickest they had was the .229" stuff. They advertised it as acrylic but isn't plexi and acrylic essentialy the same? I thought acrylic was basically a brand name of plexi...I don't know. I did ruff up the edges after I cut it by sanding it with some 60grit sand paper. Hopefully, like you said if the water pressures are pretty much equal then bowing won't be too much of an issue. With that being said the only one that worries me at this point is the baffle for the fuge. We'll see. The tank was free so the way I see it, if I do have to redo it then I wouldn't be too broken hearted about it. The materials that I already bought didn't cost too much and if I have to buy some more then I'll still probably be coming out ahead. Worst case scenerio is I lose the time it took to build but at least I will have learned something.
Maybe, if the one baffle turns out to be the only issue than perhaps I could cut another piece with the stuf I have leftover to match it and bond the two of them together for some extra strength? I'll let you guys know how it turns out lol.

 

[2quills]

Some pics after the modifications...

 

[acrylic51]

Looks good....There is a difference in plexi and acrylic....Most of the stuff you see at HD or Lowes is low grade extruded..... Both extruded and cast acrylic will absorb water, but cast is alittle better. Quality of cast acrylic is much better as well....PlexiG is acrylic, pretty decent stuff. There is recommended acrylic to use for tank build and such, because of the manufacturing qualities....Even though some will argue it's the truth. The stuff from Mexico stay away from. It looks good, give it a whirl and see how it turns out.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3276613
Looks good....There is a difference in plexi and acrylic....Most of the stuff you see at HD or Lowes is low grade extruded..... Both extruded and cast acrylic will absorb water, but cast is alittle better. Quality of cast acrylic is much better as well....PlexiG is acrylic, pretty decent stuff. There is recommended acrylic to use for tank build and such, because of the manufacturing qualities....Even though some will argue it's the truth. The stuff from Mexico stay away from. It looks good, give it a whirl and see how it turns out.
Hmmm...I didn't realize there was that much of a difference...I mean, I knew there were better grades of the stuff but I hadn't thought about it absorbing water like that. I'm going to look into some better quality stuff...just incase.
I figure I'll start testing it in a few days and post results as time goes on.
Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.

 

[acrylic51]

I'm not saying it's bad stuff.....even if you go to an acrylics plastic specialty place some will tell you the material is all the same....I have 2 friends that own a local shop, and I get all type of literature from there and tips and tricks, and both materials will absorb water, just cast is usually the choice. Then you have very good and ok brands within that....Put some water to it after the silicone cures......

 

[gill again68]

Originally Posted by 2Quills
http:///forum/post/3276433
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate the heads-up. I have read about some of the successes and failurs of using plexi with glass. When I finish cut the baffles I tried to leave a little bit of a gap so that they wouldn't be to tight when I fit them in there. I'm hoping that this will be enough to help keep the tank from cracking like yours did. I'm also a little concerned with how much the baffles are going to bow. Since it is my first build I guess I'll consider it all experimental. If it fails then I'll definately know better on the next go around. Once I order the new pump I'm going to fill it and run it for a couple of weeks to see how it does and if I don't like the way things are looking then I'll probably go out and purchas some glass.
cheers
Leaving the room will probably help if not prevent the issue I had. I cut my plexi to fit. It wasnt firm on the glass but it was really a close fit. Weeks may not show the issue that I experienced. Mine failed after months. Water all over the damn floor. Dont learn that way I beg you! I think you will be fine if you left room like you said. Keep us updated! I think acrylic51 is right about the bowing. With water on both sides it shouldnt be an issue.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by Gill again68
http:///forum/post/3276824
Leaving the room will probably help if not prevent the issue I had. I cut my plexi to fit. It wasnt firm on the glass but it was really a close fit. Weeks may not show the issue that I experienced. Mine failed after months. Water all over the damn floor. Dont learn that way I beg you! I think you will be fine if you left room like you said. Keep us updated! I think acrylic51 is right about the bowing. With water on both sides it shouldnt be an issue.
Duly noted, Mike! I would really hate to learn the hard way in this instance.
The tank used to belong to a friend of mine, and when he purchased his 125G from some folks off of an auction site they were already using it as a sump for their tank. My friend turned the 125G into a freshwater Cichlid tank and then opted not to use the 55G sump, going with canisters instead. The previous owners had used probably the same excact acrylic/plexi that I used, thickness and everything. They set it up as a 3 chamber system and when I pulled those old baffles out they were bowed, big time. I think this was mostly because they fit them in there way to tight. I mean they were probably already bowed right from the beginning, they were in there so tight. I think my friend had told me that they had used it this way for about 2 years. It sat dry for about 8 months before I picked it up.
I think a couple of the things that I may (I hope) have going for me is that...Yes...I did cut the baffles short enough so that I had approximately a 1/8" gap on one side if the other side of the baffle was flush up against the glass. And I did my best to center them when I put em in. Also, for a 55G it's rather sturdy, it has 5/16" glass as apposed to the 1/4" stuff that is on my other 55G freshwater tank, as well I assume was on your 29G. So that should help a little. And also the tank has two center braces, one on top and one on the bottom. So...keeping my fingers cross here Mike, and I'm hoping that I don't end up with a wet floor.

 

[2quills]

Ok, so here it is. I know I said I was going to wait a couple of days before testing it but I figured...what the heck? 28 hours should have been enough time for the silicone to cure. I started out filling up the fuge section first and was plesantly suprised to see virtually no bowing. There was a slight bow but you almost had to put a straight edge up to it to be able to tell. No Leaks! Next I filled the intake and skimmer section and I didn't see any bowing at all. If there was then I couldn't tell. No Leaks! Then I added a little water to the bubble trap and let a tiny bit trickle over into the return chamber...maybe about an inch to an 1"-1 1/2". Let is sit this way for about an hour. Still no leaks to be seen.
So I went ahead and just threw together a crude mock up so I could see how the thing is going to look in action. It's been running for about 2 hours now...so far, so good. Here's some shots.
i.e. I desperately want a new camera. Oh yeah, and photobucket is really testing my patience tonight.

Shot of the sump with return chamber empty (just about).

Shot of baffle for fuge chamber with return chamber empty after about an hour. Hardly any bowing.

Baffles for bubble trap, return still empty.

My crude mock up.

Notice how the waterline flirts with the bottom of the rack...

Sump in action...don't have my actual return pump yet...using chincy powerhead that is normally for mixing and doing water changes.

 

[acrylic51]

Looks Good !!!!!!

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3276881
Looks Good !!!!!!

Thanks, Shawn.
It's still early in the game so I can't quite call it a success yet but for my first one I'm pretty happy with the overal design. I have to thank Melevs Reef for that since I got the inspiration from one of his designs.
All told I think I spent a grand total of about $80 to put it together...If it works out in the long term then I'll be very happy. Once the wife and I get moved then I can look forward to building the new stand and canopy. I already have a pretty good idea of how I'm going to build it. Then lights...don't quite know if I want to buy a plug and play system or put something together myself. I'm leaning towards the later...still need to do much research on that though.
Thanks for sticking around and seeing it born.

 

[acrylic51]

Always good to see a good DIY project.....Melevs site is really good and has a bunch of good info on lots of things.....I usually recommend that site.

 

[bmkj02]

IMO, after awhile that plexi will start giving. There wont be pressure equal on both sides cause the water moves in a certain direction towards the pump and thats the direction it will fail. It should last you maybe a year but back to the drawing board you will go. I had the same problem and its just that the silcone does not adhere well to plastic/acrylic to glass. If you have a glass tank then the baffles should be glass and the silicone will last for well over many years. If you have a acrylic tank then the baffles should be acrylic and glued together with Weld-On. The taller you go with the baffles the more flex you will get and more chances of it giving way. I did it the same way on both my tank and my girlfriends tank and they both went out at the same time which was about 8 months. I went to a local glass glazier and they cut the size and thickness I need for $40 for both of my tanks and two years later not a problem (knock on wood). Good luck either way. It does look sweet.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by bmkj02
http:///forum/post/3277197
IMO, after awhile that plexi will start giving. There wont be pressure equal on both sides cause the water moves in a certain direction towards the pump and thats the direction it will fail. It should last you maybe a year but back to the drawing board you will go. I had the same problem and its just that the silcone does not adhere well to plastic/acrylic to glass. If you have a glass tank then the baffles should be glass and the silicone will last for well over many years. If you have a acrylic tank then the baffles should be acrylic and glued together with Weld-On. The taller you go with the baffles the more flex you will get and more chances of it giving way. I did it the same way on both my tank and my girlfriends tank and they both went out at the same time which was about 8 months. I went to a local glass glazier and they cut the size and thickness I need for $40 for both of my tanks and two years later not a problem (knock on wood). Good luck either way. It does look sweet.

Dang, man...why you wanna rain on my parade? LoL j/k
Hey, about how long after you made them did you notice significant bowing? I figure it's still going to be a couple of months before I'm ready to install it anyway. I was going to run it in the mean time to see how it does. But if I do start noticing it happening by then then I'll probably pull em out and go get some glass. I only did it this way because the tank was being used as a sump for 2 years with the same products that I used and they people hadn't had it fail (that I know of). But there was quite a bit of bowing on the old baffles, I just figured it was because they fit them in there too tight.
What size thickness of glass would you recommend...would 1/4" be ok or should I go with 3/8"?

 

[acrylic51]

I think 1/4" would be fine.