65 Gallon new tank

[Guest]

Set up my 65 gallon some several months ago - it is my first one. I have 45-50 lbs of live rock and 2 in of live sand, and all of the needed acessories (filter, skimmer etc.). I started off with two clownfish and waited around a month. Over the last couple months I have added more, most still in there, a couple not making it. Now I have:
-two clownfish
-a Coral beauty angel
-some type of wrasse (curious which one so i will post a picture at a later time since i cant seem to find which one it is)
-Green mandarin
-two Banggai Cardinalfish (just added today)
-Some mushroom coral (again will post picture as curios which one, just added couple days ago)
-Sandsifting Starfish (just added today)
-4 Snails
-7 or 8 hermit grabs
-a pom pom crab
-an emeral crab
-a yellow clown goby
so far the aquarium is doing really nice and is in really nice condition (no high levels in anything really, good salinity). For now i don't want to add much more to the aquarium although it does not look full. I was wondering what I can do to improve the aquarium though. I am a beginner but from my local fish store really all i do is feed brime shrimp each day. I was told to feed once a day but most things online is 3-4. Which one should i do? Also what can i place in the aquarium to just improve it? I read some thing that the mandarin needs some type of food (although my store said it does not and will be fine with just picking on sand) - the web suggested pods but they seemed pretty complicated and i would have no idea what to do. Also i was told mandarin will eat a lot of thing in the sand, and after i bought the starfish i read online that a lot of times there is a probelm where there is not a lot to eat in the sand and it will adventually starve - is there a way to help that? Also is there something else you would suggest feeding? I have pellets but i found that if i feed that, the clownfish are the only ones that eat it as they are the quickest eaters. If they dont eat it they usually fall to the bottom unoticed. I am assuming if i add a different type of food it would be beneifial to have a varaiety for the fish??

 

[mr. limpid]

First you need to slow down, saltwater tanks take 6 months to a year to mature. This is hobby enjoy it slowly or it will turn on you and you will have nothing but trouble. You need to feed other foods, brian shrimp is like potato chips, replace with mysis shrimp, try a frozen marine blend food, spectrum marine pellets and a frozen veg. blend. About your mandarin, is this an ORA mandarin or wild caught, ask the LFS? If it is wild it needs pods and your tank is to new and small to sustain this fish for long, it will starve to death. I suggest to take him back B4 that happens.

 

[novahobbies]

Welcome to the site!
A 65g tank is a great way to get your feet wet in the saltwater hobby. Trust me, you'll soon be eying corners of your house and thinking, "a 120g tank would loo GREAT there..."
It sounds to me like you've been doing pretty well so far, but I can tell you're also falling to some less than realistic advice from your local fish store. Keep in mind that these places make the bulk of their money off of bad fish keepers and "temporary hobbyists," the ones who get in, last a year or so, then break it all down and move on. With that kind of timeframe the LFS has very little time to make their money, so they may not have the fish - or fishkeeper's - best interests in mind when they make their recommendations.
I'd love to know a little more about your tank. What kind of filter do you have? Is the tank reef-ready with an overflow and sump or refugium, or do you have a hang-on-back filter or canister? What brand? What kind of skimmer and lighting do you use?
I see a couple potential issues with your stock list that you may want to address right now. First, you are completely correct: sand-sifting starfish are carnivorous animals that WILL deplete your sandbed of microfauna....the various copepods, isopods, and amphipods that would also be food for your mandarin. So yes, it is direct competition with the mandarin, and the sea star will strip a 65g tank of this beneficial life faster than the bugs can reproduce. Despite what the LFS says, this sea star is NOT a detrivore by nature, but an active carnivore. It's honestly best if you return this animal...especially if you have hopes of keeping the mandarin.
Now, let's talk about this mandarin of yours. Green mandarins are beautiful animals, very hardy in the right conditions, but care must be taken before you introduce one. As Mr. Limpid stated, you should ask if the fish you purchased was wild caught or a captive bred ORA specimen. Here's an easy way to tell: Did you spend more than $50 for the fish? If no, then I promise you it was a wild caught mandarin, and you have to present the food requirements to match the feeding habits. In the wild, mandarinfish eat microcrustateans almost to the exclusion of anything else. These are the aforementioned copepods, isopods, and amphipods. The general rule of thumb (especially for new hobbyists) is that you shouldn't keep a mandarin in anything less than a 90g tank that is mature (6 monts minimum) with at least 100lbs of live rock. Remember, this fish cruises and eats ALL DAY. You may think that a bag of copepods has a lot of critters in it, but truthfully that bag is basically 2 days worth of meals for the fish. A wild caught mandarin may or may not ever learn to take frozen mysis or pellets, but by keeping the fish in a large tank you won't ever have to worry if the fish never learns to take frozen foods. I know this is hard to consider, but you may want to think about returning the mandarinfish.....but...read on.
Don't despair just yet. There are more and more notes and articles coming out from people who have successfully Kept mandarins in small tanks. Heck, until recently I had a mated pair in a 37g seahorse tank. My male recently died after 4 years in my care...as I don't know how old he was when I purchased him, I can't be sure of his true age but he was a big boy who may have simply reached old age. I do believe you can keep a green mandarin in a 65 without any issues as long as you plan for the fish. Which means at the minimum...removing the one you have now and letting your pod population grow for at least 6 months before adding a new mandarin. If your tank filter is an overflow style with a sump, consider adding a refugium style sump filter with chaetomorpha algae and more live rock rubble for pods to grow out. You can also consider spending the extra money on an ORA captive bred animal...you can pat yourself on the back for not contributing to the potential overfishing of this animal, and the new captive bred mandarins are already predisposed to eat frozen meals such as pellet food, eggs, and mini-mysis.
Speaing of food. Again, Limpid made a very good point. Brine shrimp is nutritionally deficient for the long term health of your finned pets. The potato chip reference is apt. Fish benefit the most when their diet is varied, so check out the Hikari frozen entrees and look at frozen mysis shrimp (both the large freshwater mysis and mini-mysis as well). There are also pellet foods that are slow sinking, in case you're worried that your fish don't get to the food in time.
Personally I'm thrilled to welcome someone on board who seems genuinely interested in the long term care of their slice of the ocean. It can be a demanding hobby at times, but to me it's completely worth it when I sit down and watch my critters at the end of the day. I'm looking forward to the pictures....especially of the wrasse so we can help you identify it. You've definitely rushed things a little here, but now is a perfect time to sit back, enjoy the tank, and read up a little while your tank matures a bit. Enjoy the forums!

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the help you guys!
Between reading your guys comments as well as just telilng from the salesman you are right about the LFS. Although i live somewhat close to chicago, suprisingly the my LFS choice is very limited. Minus the petcos and petsmarts of course, there is really only 2 in 30 minute driving distance (and sadly both are 30 minutes around, just bad luck). One has an amazing selection - petland - but prices are slightly bigger than the other. I dont remember what the name is but there is something like "aquarium world" attached to it. The people in their have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and admit to it - thats why going in there I usually just google information. The other one, they know a lot more what they are talking about, but have a horrible selection. Everytime i go in there my choices are clownfish, cardinalfish, sandsifting seastare, damsels chocolate seastare and then 2-3 ones that change. I take a lot of my advice from them, but they are mostly in the buisness of cleaning tanks, and definatly are more interested in making money (ex. they told me I can add up to four fish at a time - which even being a rookie i know its a bad idea).
Now your concerns/questions
@Tank info - I must admit I do not have the best equiment. Due to the fact I'm 15 (bad since I got to worry about money for car/gas soon so cant spend a lot, good cause i got a lot of time) I couldnt afford getting it from a LFS. Looking up info online, I can get all the required stuff for around $400-800 (depending on tank size) so when LFS said around $2500, that was a quick no. I got my tank and stand from *****, the rest came from ebay. Yes I know that is bad but so far so good. Everything came from China or Taiwan, so none are names you will recognize or I remember, but so far they work great. My filter is a three layer filter, it is a pretty simple system that sits underneath the tank. I beleive you asked if it hung on the tank, so no it does not. Protein skimmer started with some problems, but after some supplies from home depot, and some construction on the tank itself that was fixed. Not sure what info i can give about skimmer, but it seems to work very nice. I do not have an overflow or anything like that. Lighting should be good, I bought a new one when I got the coral. I am not sure which kind it is but I have the box in my attick (with old light in it) if you want to know. I was assured by the LFS it is good for coral and I can definatly tell the difference in tank (looks so much nicer with new light).
@Mandarin/Star
It was definatly wild caught then because i beleive it was like under $30, definatly not 50 - but he eats the shrimp. When I place a thing of shrimp in, he will get 3 or 4 bites in. He has been in for around a month and a half and still looks pretty good so it doesnt look like it is a huge problem. Could you possibly explain the pods a bit more? Not specific types but like what they do? I mean what are they? And how do you place them in? I don't need you to go into to much detail but I dont got a clue what they are so just a couple sentences would help
@food
Feeding is not a problem really, so the pelllets arent necessary. I started off with pellets when I had just clownfish, but as I added more fish in, since the clownfish are agressive eaters, the others did not get a lot to eat. Personally I have noticed that shrimp is much easier to feed, i just place them in and everyone eats. All of my fish are agressive eaters and I am not worried about any of them starving. The only one (beside mandarin) that isnt agressive is the yellow clown goby of course, but usually atleast 3 or 4 float by him that he snatches up. I actually went to the LFS and they were out of Mysis, and they said brime is just as good - so I got to go out to ***** sometime this week to see if they have any. I did get some vegetable frozen mix. I use shrimp in the day, and then at night (once my wrasse goes into the sand, since it is a carnivore I beleive) I feed the vegetable mix. Its not that I purpously wait for the wrasse to go to bed, its just that one of the feedings happens to be at that time, and since the wrasse wont eat it anyway that should probably be the one.
@slowing down
I cant say I think I went to fast, becase trust me from articles and the LFS i was warned about that so I was careful not to go to fast. I probably did add the clown fish to early (week and a half after tank was completely set up, LFS said it was okay) so I waited around 5 weeks to add anything else, after that atleast 2-3 weeks before adding anything else (4 once due to an urchin I got died so wanted to be safe). Im not sure when I exactly got the tank but it is between 4-5 months I'd say so it is pretty close to 6

 

[mr. limpid]

If you are close to Chicago, so am I. Try out Golden Aquarium this a good shop and the guys there know about salt. It is located at archer and ashland in the Dominick's mall. Pod's are little shrimp like creatures, theses are what Mandarins hunt for all day long.

 

[smallreef]

Being 15 we understand the limited funds you have, with that being said that gives you alot more time to research things...
the first of which is waht fish in what order you want to add.
and copepods... very beneficial 'bugs' in your aquarium are needed to sustain the mandarin, even though he is picking at the shrimp he is not getting the nutrition he needs..
you mentioned "dropping in the food'? are you tanking about frozen or freeze dried food? If its frozen you should thaw it completely in something like a small tupperware container with some tank water, then dump out through a net or something so you dont loose the food but dont keep the nasty water... then put it in your tank...

 

[Guest]

Ill check out golden aquarium, thanks
Thanks for the information about the frozen food, good to know
So while I am ordering the copepods online I decided im going to get a couple of other things whiles Im paying for the online shipping, do any of you see a problem with the items?
-Candy Cade Frag
-Bubble Tip Anenome
-False Percula Clownfish (comes free w/ anenome)
-Emerald Crab (x3)
-Pincushion Urchin (x2)
-Mushroom Polyp - Ricordea Green
-Bumble Bee Snail
-Cleaner Clam (x5)
Dont think any of these will cause problems, dont want to get any more fish since I think tanks about full but the clownfish comes free so why not

 

[novahobbies]

You will need to be careful with the anemone. They require VERY high light, either a 4-bulb HO T5 fluorescent or a Metal Halide (Or high level LEDs). The Candy Canes will need a good light output as well, but your big concern is that anemone.
Bumble Bee snails are pretty but don't forget they are carnivores, not detrivores. And just FYI, cleaner clams don't usually live long in our tanks...not sure why...but you will want to watch them so they don't die and begin to ROT in the tank. Sort of defeats the purpose.

 

[smallreef]

LOL yeah Id take out the clams... unless you have triggers that like the extra food! (thats what I always used them for)
also you really only need 1 urchin... with more in that size tank they will run out of food quickly and possibly die...

 

[Guest]

I am planning on feeding the urchins dried seeweed. All other urchins were like $20 each, and this was was 2 for 12 (no option, 2 or none). My old urchin did not last (one of only two things I have had not make it, minus snails) probably because the lack of algae. Now I have alot more than before and plan to feed them dried seeweed as well so should not be problem
Ill see how the clams go, Ill monitor them closely. Any suggestions for what to look for? Also I just got the shipment, and it is kind of weird, there is next to 0 water int eh clam container. Can they live w/o water? I thougth they couldnt. Also one came cracked, havent opened bag yet but I am assuming it is dead or will be soon so only 4.
When I got my mushroom corals I also got a light - it is a 50/50 Reef Sun 25 Watts. The LFS told me it would be enough for corals and on the box it says great for corals and invertebrates and it enhances the color and I have definatly seen an enhancement in fish color since the change
What do I do exactly with the pods? I just got the bottle, and most things say to place htem in the refugium. I dont have one (but I do have a 10 gallon freshwater tank with only 1 fish i could tranfser to another tank, so I could probably make one) but is it necesarry? If not do I just pour the pods in or what should i do?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dacubz145 http:///t/392764/65-gallon-new-tank#post_3492306
What do I do exactly with the pods? I just got the bottle, and most things say to place htem in the refugium. I dont have one (but I do have a 10 gallon freshwater tank with only 1 fish i could tranfser to another tank, so I could probably make one) but is it necesarry? If not do I just pour the pods in or what should i do?
If the pods are for food, just pour it in, water and all...if you want to breed pods and want them to populate, you need to acclimate them. Dump the water into a container and slowly add some tank water to it for about 30 minutes and with lights out....preferably in a refugium, pour the water and all, over the rocks or macros.
I never knew they had to be acclimated until I read it on a pod selling site. I had a refugium, and yet never could get a good population going until I read to acclimate.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for that tip - will do!