Acclimation
- Thread starter thumpco
- Start date
S
saxman
Guest
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
thumpco
Member
So when I open the bag the fish came in can I put the fish in a bucket?
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438431
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438431
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
mr. limpid
Active Member
This what I do, doesn't make it the best way. First, only buy from LFS I like to see what I buy, really want to see if they eat. I float the bag for 15 min. (so temp. can adjust) then every 10min add 1/4 cup of QT water, the last half hour add 1/2 cup then the last 10 min go to five min intervals with full cup. I do this for 2 hours. The reason I don't drip sound to hard, need to find the right size container; tie the hose so it will drip right and I'm concern about temp. while acclimating using drip method.
S
saxman
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438725
The reason I don't drip sound to hard, need to find the right size container; tie the hose so it will drip right and I'm concern about temp. while acclimating using drip method.
OR, you could simply put an airline control valve in your drip line and dial in your drip rate...cheap, quick, and it's a heck of a lot easier than tying knots in the line.
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438725
The reason I don't drip sound to hard, need to find the right size container; tie the hose so it will drip right and I'm concern about temp. while acclimating using drip method.
OR, you could simply put an airline control valve in your drip line and dial in your drip rate...cheap, quick, and it's a heck of a lot easier than tying knots in the line.
thumpco
Member
I don't have a good LFS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438725
This what I do, doesn't make it the best way. First, only buy from LFS I like to see what I buy, really want to see if they eat. I float the bag for 15 min. (so temp. can adjust) then every 10min add 1/4 cup of QT water, the last half hour add 1/2 cup then the last 10 min go to five min intervals with full cup. I do this for 2 hours. The reason I don't drip sound to hard, need to find the right size container; tie the hose so it will drip right and I'm concern about temp. while acclimating using drip method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438725
This what I do, doesn't make it the best way. First, only buy from LFS I like to see what I buy, really want to see if they eat. I float the bag for 15 min. (so temp. can adjust) then every 10min add 1/4 cup of QT water, the last half hour add 1/2 cup then the last 10 min go to five min intervals with full cup. I do this for 2 hours. The reason I don't drip sound to hard, need to find the right size container; tie the hose so it will drip right and I'm concern about temp. while acclimating using drip method.
mr. limpid
Active Member
Then if you don't have a good LFS, I would use the recommended acclimation from the site you are buying from. That way if there is any problems they will warrant there guarantee.
S
saxman
Guest
Quote:
So when I open the bag the fish came in can I put the fish in a bucket?
The idea with the "Stoskopf method" is to get the fish out of the bagwater ASAP...aerating the water only makes the toxicity worse and the pH jumps faster.
So when I open the bag the fish came in can I put the fish in a bucket?
The idea with the "Stoskopf method" is to get the fish out of the bagwater ASAP...aerating the water only makes the toxicity worse and the pH jumps faster.
slice
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438431
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
This is good stuff right here, Saxman, thanks for posting this. It connects a few dots on salinity that had been a disconnect for me.
I will be using this technique for a shipped fish next week...thanks again!
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438431
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
This is good stuff right here, Saxman, thanks for posting this. It connects a few dots on salinity that had been a disconnect for me.
I will be using this technique for a shipped fish next week...thanks again!
mr. limpid
Active Member
Also you have some Amquel + on hand add this to your bag water, it will reduse the ammonia.
btldreef
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438925
Also you have some Amquel + on hand add this to your bag water, it will reduse the ammonia.
I also like SeaChem Prime (in very small doses), as it can also be used as a stress coat.
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438925
Also you have some Amquel + on hand add this to your bag water, it will reduse the ammonia.
I also like SeaChem Prime (in very small doses), as it can also be used as a stress coat.
thumpco
Member
Well what water do I put the fish in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438912
This is good stuff right here, Saxman, thanks for posting this. It connects a few dots on salinity that had been a disconnect for me.
I will be using this technique for a shipped fish next week...thanks again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438906
The idea with the "Stoskopf method" is to get the fish out of the bagwater ASAP...aerating the water only makes the toxicity worse and the pH jumps faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438912
This is good stuff right here, Saxman, thanks for posting this. It connects a few dots on salinity that had been a disconnect for me.
I will be using this technique for a shipped fish next week...thanks again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438906
The idea with the "Stoskopf method" is to get the fish out of the bagwater ASAP...aerating the water only makes the toxicity worse and the pH jumps faster.
thumpco
Member
Oh, when I open the bag do I take out a lot of that water and replace what I took out with my tank water?
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438906
The idea with the "Stoskopf method" is to get the fish out of the bagwater ASAP...aerating the water only makes the toxicity worse and the pH jumps faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438906
The idea with the "Stoskopf method" is to get the fish out of the bagwater ASAP...aerating the water only makes the toxicity worse and the pH jumps faster.
gemmy
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438431
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
Can I get some more info on the Stoskopf method?
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3438431
We get a lot of our personal specimens shipped to us, and about the only thing we check is salinity to make sure our target tank isn't higher than the shipping water. It's OK for a fish to go from high to low, but not vice-versa, as it will result in dehydration (osmotic shock). In fact, most etailers run on the higher side of SG for this reason.
The reason we don't drip acclimate any fish that has been bagged for more than an hour is because the shipping water is loaded with ammonia, which is in a less toxic state (NH4) than the toxic NH3. Once the bag is opened, the O2 in the air oxidizes the NH4 to the more toxic NH3 and begins to burn the fish's gill structures. One should also consider that the pH of the bagwater takes a jump as well.
Take a look...(tankwater on left, shipping water on right):
We know of several professionals, some of whom ship many fish per year, and including Sott Michael, who also follow this guideline (known as the Stoskopf method, after Dr. Michael Stoskopf): once the bag is opened, get the fish out ASAP.
I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all method, but the photo is worth 1000 words. This method has worked really well for us.
Can I get some more info on the Stoskopf method?
slice
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3439008
Can I get some more info on the Stoskopf method?
I did a google and found several articles on the method over at Advanced Aquarist.
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/389218/acclimation#post_3439008
Can I get some more info on the Stoskopf method?
I did a google and found several articles on the method over at Advanced Aquarist.
sepulatian
Moderator
I have never dealt with a company that kept their SG on the high side. Most stores, and especially warehouses keep their SG rather low in the hopes of parasites not showing themselves... I have acclimated a LOT of fish. I always drip acclimate in a bucket for a few hours. I have never once had an issue with temp stress, unless you are doing this in an area that is extremely hot or cold.
S
saxman
Guest
Quote:
I have never dealt with a company that kept their SG on the high side.
We have lots of fish shipped to us from about the biggest WYSIWYG site there is, and altho it makes more sense to keep new fish at lower SG's, we don't find that to be true. We've tested a lot of bagwater, and have never found anything below 1.025, but it's generally very close to 1.030. One assumes this is because the sellers want to be sure the fish never go from low-to-high salinity.
I think more facilities run low-level copper than low salinity (many of the wholesalers are VERY careful about not mixing "fish water" with "invert water" for this reason). In fact, they even have separate nets for each section.
Another thing I've found is that many LFS mix their SW supply tanks in the AM, and take a reading before the salt is completely dissolved, so they may think is 1.025, but once the stuff mixes and dissolves, you're very close to 1.030. I've bought water a few times, and always ask what the SG is, and it's always higher than they say (yes, our refractomer is accurate).
We have some fish coming in next week, and I'll test that water and report back...
I have never dealt with a company that kept their SG on the high side.
We have lots of fish shipped to us from about the biggest WYSIWYG site there is, and altho it makes more sense to keep new fish at lower SG's, we don't find that to be true. We've tested a lot of bagwater, and have never found anything below 1.025, but it's generally very close to 1.030. One assumes this is because the sellers want to be sure the fish never go from low-to-high salinity.
I think more facilities run low-level copper than low salinity (many of the wholesalers are VERY careful about not mixing "fish water" with "invert water" for this reason). In fact, they even have separate nets for each section.
Another thing I've found is that many LFS mix their SW supply tanks in the AM, and take a reading before the salt is completely dissolved, so they may think is 1.025, but once the stuff mixes and dissolves, you're very close to 1.030. I've bought water a few times, and always ask what the SG is, and it's always higher than they say (yes, our refractomer is accurate).
We have some fish coming in next week, and I'll test that water and report back...
emilyboyce195
Member
i have just set up a tank its around 1 1/2 months old i have taken my water to my local shop n they sed im all ready to start with cleaning crew since i only have live rock atm i brought a cleaner shrimp and some hermet crabs there doing fine but my shrimp lasted 30 mins i left the bags for 30 mins in the tank then added half a cup of my tank water every 10 mins to 2 hours then slowly drop him in the tank he went to the bottem moved around a bit but looked like he got a lil court in some hair algi i have but soon moved 30 mins later he moved fliped over n hasnt moved for over an hour now any ideas my water salt levals are 1.025 ???????
S
saxman
Guest
I dunno what's up with your shrimp, but it's likely a water mismatch or other issue. Besides SG mismatches, inverts are sensitive to other water parameters what were the pH readings? How long was the critter bagged before you opened it and started the acclimation? You should really invest in at least ammonia, nitrate and pH kits and not rely on the LFS every time you need to test your water.
I also question why folks add CUC's to a brand new tank when there isn't any food in the tank (the tank hasn't had time to grow anything for them to eat at this point, unless you're feeding them), but I digress...it's not the problem with the shrimp.
I also question why folks add CUC's to a brand new tank when there isn't any food in the tank (the tank hasn't had time to grow anything for them to eat at this point, unless you're feeding them), but I digress...it's not the problem with the shrimp.