Advice Really Needed

desertdawg

Member
I've been searching and reading for 4 days straight and don't know what to do or which way to go next.
125 gallon RO/DI
running an algae scrubber and a small polishing filter added to a power head.
2 pencil, 2 sally, 2 peppermint, 1 fancy nassarous, a few blue and green hermits, 3 emarld.
Added a pair of clowns.
3 weeks later added a gold rim tang.
After a couple of weeks we started seeing what looked like tiny bubbles on the tang that would come and go daily so we thought it was just micro bubbles.
So 3 weeks after the Gold Rim we added a Yellow tang and a Hippo tang, this is when things got crappy, the bubbles on the Gold got way worse. ICH! Within 3 days the Yellow and the Hippo start showing the same symptoms.
I run to the LFS and they hand me Rid-Ich and they say it's ok to treat the whole tank.
Added 11 teaspoons and 12 hours later the Gold is dead, following the bottle instructions I change out 25 gallons and add 10 more teaspoons and several hours later the Hippo is dead, then the Yellow is dead soon after.
Both clowns start showing signs of ich about this time too.
I setup the only thing I have, a 3 gallon with 1.009 salt, fresh water dip the clowns for about 30 minutes then put them in it and Rid-Ich treat the 3 gallon, 12 hours later 75% water change and a very small dose of Rid-Ich, no signs of ich on the clowns.
18 hours later (this morning) 100% water change with a through scrubbing of EVERYTHING in hot water, no Rid Ich and I raised the salt level to 1.012, the poor clowns are looking way happier with more salt and no chemicals.
water params are ok with no cycle, no sand, no rock, just as small doodad for them to swim around.
Plans are now to raise the salt level back up over the next couple of days. I need to get them back in the DT by friday night because no one will be here for 36 hours, and with just 3 gallons it needs changing about every 12 hours.... Suggestions?
Now heres what makes me really sick. the DT is dying or dead I think due to the 2 Rid-Ich treatments.
Dead so far -1 emarld, several hermits, the 3 small frags (shroom, zoo, monti) are all shrivled, there is zero plant life, the sand and rock have nothing growin on it, no algae, no nothing. Even the scrubber looks like it's going backwards this morning. The Fancy keeps trying to climb out the top, 1 peppermint floating this morning.
Yesterday afternoon it was getting cloudy (rid-ich???)
water params ammo 0.1, trite 0, trate 2, PH 8.1, salt 1.023
I changed out 25 gallons, new filter on the powerhead. and a bag of carbon in the overflow.
This morning the water is almost crystal, levels tested the same, but it's completely dull-dead looking...
Where do I go from here?
 

small triggers

Active Member
As far as HYPO..... you should do it SLOWLY not just put the fish in a SG of 1.009 from a regular SG tank, even after the dip,, it did nothing but stress them out. As for your DT i would just keep doing water changes and change out your carbon once a week for a month, then slowly start building everything up again. QT your next fish for a month before adding it....its gonna take that long to get the tank back in working order
 

luvmyreef

Active Member
I agree with the above stated info, and would like to add. I believe that rid ich contains formaldehyde and malachite green, and is in no way reef safe. My advice would be to remove your coral for now if you can.
 

desertdawg

Member
Like I said, lesson learned, QT from now on! BTW the Gold and everthing before him was ordered from SWF!
I was pretty stressed and didn't think about dropping the clowns in the hypo water, I realized what I did afterwards, they seem to be doing ok this morning. No signs of ich, and actually eating again.
Should I shut down the scrubber to promote growth in the DT, or keep it running with the growth thats on it? Right now it has an even coating of algae about 1/4 inch thick.
 

desertdawg

Member
I didn't mean to imply I got the ich from SWF, I did get more rock and the frags local.
Do you think the DT will be cured of ich now with the crap I put in it? What about my need to get the clowns back in it by friday night???
 

luvmyreef

Active Member
Well, are we ever really cured of ick? I dunno. You might not be able to add your clowns friday. Keep testing your water, do large water changes, freq change carbon, etc. The ammonia spike will cause the cloudiness, due to the dye off. And you might pm beth. She's the expert on fish health.
 

btldreef

Moderator
This is right off the Rid-Ich's website: "Rid·Ich+ is not recommended for use in aquariums containing invertebrates and may cause severe stress or death to some of these animals."
Your LFS definitely gave you bad advice. Rid-Ich is for FISH ONLY tanks. I don't think you're going to be able to put these fish back in by Friday. SORRY. IMO, your DT isn't going to be ready for a month, now that it's had ich.
Your clowns should be okay for a few hours, don't feed them and do a large water change before you leave. If you can get out some of your corals, I would, but I don't know how much hope there is for them now that they've been exposed to the chemicals.
 

desertdawg

Member
This morning the 3 gallons stunk, but it still had rid-ich in it, so I'll see how it does without it, hopefully it wil be ok for almost 2 days without a water change, if not the clowns will have to go in the DT.
I think I'm going to shoot for about a 50 gallon water change in the next 2 days, plus new carbon, I hope that dilutes it enough to get things going again.
The 3 small corals are probably goners, I was just getting started on them so it's not a drastic loss like the 3 tangs were.
Thanks for the advice, I've been beating myself up because I dumped rid-ich in without really researching it, and for ignoring the first signs of ich and adding the other 2 tangs...... Big Dummy me!
 

desertdawg

Member
Just got home from work,both pencils are very lethargic, almost no movement so they are probably goners!
1 Sally is hanging out in the front of the tank and not very responsive either.
Man did I screw up!
The plan right now is to go get about 50 gallons of RO water and get it mixing, then if it looks good tonight I'll change it out. Does the carbon help in removing the chemicals?
Oh if anyone needs some help royally screwing up their tank just let me know...
 

btldreef

Moderator
Originally Posted by Desertdawg
http:///forum/post/3158460
Just got home from work,both pencils are very lethargic, almost no movement so they are probably goners!
1 Sally is hanging out in the front of the tank and not very responsive either.
Man did I screw up!
The plan right now is to go get about 50 gallons of RO water and get it mixing, then if it looks good tonight I'll change it out. Does the carbon help in removing the chemicals?
Oh if anyone needs some help royally screwing up their tank just let me know...

Carbon will probably help. But if you use it, you're going to have to change it weekly for about a month.
Don't beat yourself up too bad. We've all had that
moment at one point or another with this hobby. Last night my husband decided not to quarantine new cured live rock and we ended up with a reef lobster trying to eat our mandarin! AND a pistol shrimp.
 

posiden

Active Member
Yea, I don't think I would beat yourself up too bad. As long as you really did learn for this. Some say they do, then can't resist the temptation while at the LFS and bend the rules.
I would do what ever you can to let the DT run fallow for 6-8 weeks. This should/will rid the DT of the ich. I would also run the carbon and change it as the others have mentioned. IMO running the carbon will help to remove the chemicals from the water. If you have a skimmer run it wet and do your water changes. If the scrubber is working and you have algae growth on it, I would leave it on line. It will help to absord any nutrients caused by die off. If you nuked your tank you will know by looking at the scrubber growth.(as well as other things) Instead of the algae you will have the brown and what not again caused by the increase of nutrients.
This is just my opinion, i hope this helps.
Good Luck.
 

desertdawg

Member
Every little bit helps, thanks for posting.
I changed out 50 gallons last night ... whew!
I don't own a skimmer s I put in a new polishing filter, and new carbon, this morning it was almost crystal clear again. The scrubber is still running, there is a little dark brown on it but about half of it is still dark green. There wasn't much to kill off anyway, between the CuC and the scrubber it was staying clean before.
The clowns in the 3 gallon won't go much over 12 hours without the water smelling bad, I changed it yesterday evening, and gave them a small pinch of flakes that they gobbled down, this morning it was really smelly so I did another water change. I'm working the salt content back up a little each time I do this, I'm at 1.014 this morning.
The plan is to get them back in the DT by friday as long as I don't see any ammo or trites in it. I'll test it this evening to see if it's cycling. I'm hoping between the scrubber and more than half new water it's doing good!
I'll just have to chance it with the ich, You would think the Rid-ich took care of all the bad stuff because it sure worked on the good critters...
If you guys say "are we ever really ich free" then how do you control it? Is there something you add once a week or what?
 

posiden

Active Member
Originally Posted by Desertdawg
http:///forum/post/3158790
If you guys say "are we ever really ich free" then how do you control it? Is there something you add once a week or what?

IMO, a tank wont have ich if it is never imported into the tank to begin with. This is another reason not to go fast when setting up a tank. By letting a tank cycle for a good period of time, it will break the life cycle of the parasite.
Buy a tank, set it up, let it cycle for a month. If all is well, buy a fish and place it in QT for a month(If nothing is wrong) then move it into its new home.
That is why i mentioned running the tank fallow for 6-8 weeks. This will break the life cycle. There are the ones that are on the fish and the cist that is amongst the LR. When they hatch if there is no host they will then die. IIRC the life cycle is about 3 weeks. You run 6-8 weeks to make sure it is all out. Others will say 4 weeks is just fine. I like to be a little more safe. So, I believe that a tank can be rid of the pest and never have a problem. Again, providen you don't break the QT rules. This must be followed for corals also due to the fact that ich can ride in on the rock the coral is attached to.
 

desertdawg

Member
Yeah I have been doing a lot of reading about ich, I understand the reason for the 6 week wait and also the QT process on any new purchase. I blew it!
I only ordered from SWF and figured all would be good, but I added a very small zoo, and a couple of pieces of rock from an ad on CL to the tank without thinking any of this could be carrying ich.
From now on I will be following the rules, I promise!!!

Right now I'm trying to keep the clowns alive.
The DT water parameters are great.
pH: 8.1
Temperature: 76
Specific Gravity: 1.021
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: below 2.0 ppm
After talking with a friend about my screwup and where I am now, he said to do the following.
Last night the clowns in the 3 gallon look good, the water gets smelly/bad in about 12 hours and this morning the clowns looked just ok, this afternoon they were looking bad, sort of ragged and beat up.
So the plan was made to move them back to the DT after a long acclimation period this afternoon, then I'm going to watch them closely for a week for ich, at the first sign, or after a week I will prepare a dip of tank water and Rid-Ich and put them in it for about 30 minutes, then back to the tank. This will be done for 3 days.
His assumption is that any unhatched ich will be in the water column by then and the dip will prevent them from hosting on the clowns.
It's the best I can do for now, I don't have a QT/HT setup and cycled, using tank water is no good because it's infected, and the clowns will probably not survive a couple of weeks of 12 hour water changes...
If they don't survive then I will have all the time in the world to let the tank sit fallow!
I think my next purchase will be a cleaner shrimp!!!
 

xcali1985

Active Member
Originally Posted by Desertdawg
http:///forum/post/3159402
Yeah I have been doing a lot of reading about ich, I understand the reason for the 6 week wait and also the QT process on any new purchase. I blew it!
I only ordered from SWF and figured all would be good, but I added a very small zoo, and a couple of pieces of rock from an ad on CL to the tank without thinking any of this could be carrying ich.
From now on I will be following the rules, I promise!!!

Right now I'm trying to keep the clowns alive.
The DT water parameters are great.
pH: 8.1
Temperature: 76
Specific Gravity: 1.021
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: below 2.0 ppm
After talking with a friend about my screwup and where I am now, he said to do the following.
Last night the clowns in the 3 gallon look good, the water gets smelly/bad in about 12 hours and this morning the clowns looked just ok, this afternoon they were looking bad, sort of ragged and beat up.
So the plan was made to move them back to the DT after a long acclimation period this afternoon, then I'm going to watch them closely for a week for ich, at the first sign, or after a week I will prepare a dip of tank water and Rid-Ich and put them in it for about 30 minutes, then back to the tank. This will be done for 3 days.
His assumption is that any unhatched ich will be in the water column by then and the dip will prevent them from hosting on the clowns.
It's the best I can do for now, I don't have a QT/HT setup and cycled, using tank water is no good because it's infected, and the clowns will probably not survive a couple of weeks of 12 hour water changes...
If they don't survive then I will have all the time in the world to let the tank sit fallow!
I think my next purchase will be a cleaner shrimp!!!
Cleaner shrimps work, im a true believer. Im dealing with Ich now also and i can attest that they work excellent on removing ich from the body and face of the fish, as for the fins not so much at least the vertical ones. My Copperband has it on his fins now use to have it all over till my cleaners tag teamed him yesterday. He only lets them clean a little at a time but it looks as if his entire body is clear of them now.
 

desertdawg

Member
Thanks xcali, thats good to know! I'll probably be picking up a pair of cleaner shrimp as soon as I'm sure the rid-ich is out of the tank!
Looks like the 2 Sally's will survive, the smaller one molted last night again. The 3 emeralds are still alive along with the last peppermint. Lots of astrea snails and a few hermits still moving but the fancy Nassarious has been hiding again.
I was surprised to see 2 large copepods on the bag of carbon this morning, big suckers that swam right back to it as soon as I lowered it back into the overflow.
The 2 pencil urchins are still iffy, I keep moving the with a stick a little to make sure they respond. they are slow but their still alive.
 

posiden

Active Member
When I had a case of the, Oops in my tank. I had zero luck with the cleaner shrimp. It depends on where the fish come from. If they don't know what the shrimps purpose is, they wont stop at the cleaning station. That is what I was told and it is what I experienced in my tank.
Anybody care to confirm or deni this??
 

xcali1985

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/3159661
When I had a case of the, Oops in my tank. I had zero luck with the cleaner shrimp. It depends on where the fish come from. If they don't know what the shrimps purpose is, they wont stop at the cleaning station. That is what I was told and it is what I experienced in my tank.
Anybody care to confirm or deni this??
Sounds reasonable, however, I would think after time it wouldn't be a problem. For instance, my Coral Beauty Angel went right over to them the first day of the outbreak, my Copperband didn't but after a week of him swimming by the shrimp and them chasing him he must have realized that they were trying to help. Its funny watching him now as he will let them clean a little then come back a few minutes later stop and do it some more like a car wash type thing.
 

posiden

Active Member
Originally Posted by Xcali1985
http:///forum/post/3159685
Sounds reasonable, however, I would think after time it wouldn't be a problem. For instance, my Coral Beauty Angel went right over to them the first day of the outbreak, my Copperband didn't but after a week of him swimming by the shrimp and them chasing him he must have realized that they were trying to help. Its funny watching him now as he will let them clean a little then come back a few minutes later stop and do it some more like a car wash type thing.

And all three are from the Indian Ocean.
 
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