Agralive Substrate

dmoe

New Member
First of all,
I'm not new to this stuff,itjust hasn't been possible for me to have saltwater set-up for about 15yrs.I did things the old way by seeding my tank with media from a trusted source.I purchased some Agralive substrate from my local store,and after reading the guidelines from the package,I'm a bit confused.It was always my method to seed my tank,add some Damsels & wait for it to run it's cycle;moniter the ammonia drop & then add specimens gradually.If anyone has used this product, please relate your expeirience with it,& any advise of info would be much appreciated.
Dan
dmoe@insightbb.com
 

cboyfan2020

Active Member
Aragalive is what they like to call "live" sand with all the little bacteria already in the sand but its effectiveness is debatable. I used it on my 55g and had nothing go wrong. I am setting up a 120 now and will use cups of other reefers sand to help seed mine with pods, etc.
What part of instuctions are you confused about?
 

dmoe

New Member
Mostly lack of instuctions.In the past with natural seeding & Damsels,It took 2 to 2&1/2 wks for the tank to cycle & "pop".I even got to the point where I could tell just by look & smell when it occured.My main concern is:With this new prouduct,is this timeline the same,shorter or longer.And also, are there any different side effects:ph, nitrites& nitrate levels etc.The package gave no such information.Should I buy a test kit?My instincts are pretty good,but this new product is a first for me.I guess I'm kinda old school,but I'd like to catch up.
Thanks in advance
Dan Moriarty
dmoe@insightbb.com
 

cboyfan2020

Active Member
I would definately get some test kits. Cycling depends on the bioload. Most people now just put sand and live rock in the tank and let the rock do the cycling. My tank took 2 months to fully cycle. I would just throw some live rock in there and let it go while monitoring the levels once a week or so.
 

cboyfan2020

Active Member
Also, I think you probably already know this but damsels are a PIA to get out of tank so unless you want to keep them I would just cycle with the LR. Good luck :D
 

dmoe

New Member
Your advise makes good sense.But since I've already started with damsels I'm gonna stay that route & add more as they die off.By the way I'm running a dual301 pwerhead undergravel filter & have a 501 backfilter.haven't installed backfilter yet.Should I wait till tank cycles fully or install now.
Thanks.
dmoe
 

cboyfan2020

Active Member
I'm not familiar with the term back filter. Do you mean a HOB power filter? I do know about undergravel fiters and they are a PIA. I would suggest you dump it now because it will just be a nitrate factory. Do you know about Deep Sand Beds? Do a search for that and that is what I would suggest.
 

dmoe

New Member
It's an Aquaclear 300 Dual filtration system.It's impeller powerd and the cannister mounts on the back of the tank.It provides both mechanical & media filtration.I'll be using media especially for marine systems.If you have any other advice it would be much apprciated.You seem very astute,and I've been out of the game for awhile.My goal is a non-reef fish only enviroment,with a Harlequin Tusk & a Majestic Angel as my prize specimens.
 

javatech

Member
A Simple Approach to Fishless Cycling
By Rebecca Townsend
So what exactly is fishless cycling? In short, it is a manufactured
reproduction of the nitrogen cycle that would otherwise occur
naturally in a new aquarium in which fish are added. Unfortunately,
this cycle is very stressful for the fish in question though, as both
ammonia and nitrite is very toxic at detectable levels. That's why
alternative methods have been developed, so we can attain the
bacteria needed to keep our fish in a safe, healthy environment
without harming any fish in the process. In this article I will attempt
to explain the process of fishless cycling in a simple,
easy-to-understand fashion that even a brand new hobbyist can
understand.
I will not go into great detail about the nitrogen cycle here, for that
is not the intent of this article. Instead, I will just give you the bare
minimum that you need to know to understand how this process
works. Fish, as well as any other living or once-living thing that can
be found in an aquarium, produce waste in the form of ammonia.
Bacteria forms which converts that ammonia to nitrites. More
bacteria is then formed which converts the nitrites into nitrates,
which is the least toxic product of the nitrogen cycle. Once you
have measurable nitrates and the ammonia and nitrites are gone,
then your cycle is complete. The bacteria responsible for this
process are what we are trying to achieve here. That's the stuff that
will break down the toxins the fish produce and make the water
safe for them to live in.
So, are you still with me so far? Now that we have established what
we are trying to do and why, the next step will be how. There are
many methods of fishless cycling available, but I like to use the
simplest and most direct route available - pure ammonia. You can
find it in most grocery stores or hardware stores, usually with the
cleaning supplies. But make sure whatever brand you choose is
100% pure, clear ammonia with no color or any other additives. If in
doubt, pick the bottle up and shake it up. If it foams or forms any
suds, don't use it. You will also need some water test kits, found in
your local aquarium supply store or many mail order pet supply
companies. Test kits are invaluable in the fishkeeping hobby, and
you will find yourself using them for much more than just the
tracking of your fishless cycle. The three you will need for need for
now are Ammonia (NH4/NH3+), Nitrite (NO2), and Nitrate (NO3).
By now you should have your aquarium filled with water, gravel or
whatever substrate you intend to use, and have your filter up and
running. Your tap water will be best for cycling purposes. If you feel
you need to modify your water to fit the type of fish you want to
keep, there will be plenty of time for that after your cycle is over. If
you have chlorine in your water, you can simply let your water sit
overnight and the chlorine will outgas by itself. But if your water
company also adds chloramines to the water supply, you will have
to remove them yourself. You can do this by boiling your water, and
let it to cool overnight to allow any by-product chlorine to outgas
and to let oxygen back into the water. Or you can add a
dechlorinator that also removes chloramines. It's best to use a
simple one without the extra additives, to avoid any false readings
from your test kits. Also make sure you don't have any
ammonia-removing materials in your filter, such as zeolite,
ammo-rocks, or nitra-zorb. These will seriously deter, or possibly
stop, your cycle. If you have a heater, it would also help to set it to
around 86 degrees F. The warmer temperature increases the
metabolism of the bacteria you want to create, thereby speeding up
the cycle of your tank.
If you have access to another disease-free established tank, this
would be a good time to add some seeded material to jump-start
your cycle. See if you can obtain a cup or two of the top inch of
gravel from that tank, as this is where the majority of the bacterial
colony lives, next to the filter material. You can either add it directly
to the top of your new gravel, or in a filter bag or clean stocking if
the color doesn't match and you want to remove it later. If you have
room in your filter, you can put the bag of established gravel right in
there. Even better than old gravel would be any old established filter
media, such as a cartridge, floss, or foam. You can even add filter
squeezings from an established filter directly to your new one. Or
clean out all that gunk at the bottom of the established filter's
chamber or impeller, and put this gunk directly into your new filter.
All of these materials contain the good bacteria you are trying to
establish, so the more of it you can get into your new tank, the
faster your cycle will go. In fact, if you can also re-seed the tank
every couple of days as your cycle progresses, that would be
perfect. Just make sure the tank you are borrowing from is
disease-free.
If you don't have access to another tank, see if your local fish store
will let you have some used filter material or squeezings from one of
their disease-free tanks. Sometimes they will even let you have a
small amount of gravel if you ask nicely, or maybe for a small fee.
But don't let them sell you any of the bacteria-in-a-bottle products.
These pre-packaged products that promise to cycle your tank are
nothing other than a placebo, as the bacteria required for
nitrification are aerobic and have no dormant stage, so cannot be
stored in a jar or other container. But if you don't have access to
any other tanks at all, don't worry about it. You're cycle will still be
established even without any seeded material at all.
 

javatech

Member
Now you are ready to add the ammonia. This can be as simple or
as complicated as you want it to be. Some people have reported
good results by simply dumping some in the tank water to read
around 10ppm, then waiting till the ammonia and nitrite readings
were back down to 0 and nitrates were showing a positive reading.
While this is certainly going to work, I'm not sure how large a
colony of bacteria will be left at the end of the cycle. By adding
ammonia on a regular basis, you can be assured of a large colony
of bacteria to support a full load of fish at the end.
The amount of ammonia you add initially is going to be by trial and
error. Different brands have different concentrations, so you'll have
to find out for yourself how much you need. But add enough to read
anywhere from 2ppm to 5ppm on your ammonia test kit, and keep
track of that amount. I like to use a child's medicine syringe or
dropper for this. This is the amount you will be adding on a regular
basis, say every day or even two or three days. As bacteria
colonizes and multiplies, it will consume the ammonia and begin to
convert it to nitrite. Be patient as this may take several days, or
even a couple of weeks, for the nitrites to show up. And don't be
alarmed if your ammonia readings go higher than your test kit chart
shows. This is a normal process and it will come back down when
it's ready.
When your nitrites show a reading of around 3-5ppm, cut the
dosage of your ammonia additions in half, but keep adding it at the
same regular intervals. You need to feed the bacteria to ensure that
it keeps growing and multiplying to form a full bacterial bed. If you
stop feeding the bacteria, they may begin to die back to fit the food
source. This nitrite phase is usually the longest part of the cycle.
And again, don't be alarmed if the test readings go off the chart.
More food equals more bacteria.
This phase also often seems to get "stuck". If your nitrites seem to
be off the chart for more than a couple weeks, with your other
readings seeming to be at a standstill also, it might be time to do
something a little different in your routine. Maybe skip a couple
ammonia additions if you are adding every day, or add an extra one
if you are adding every couple days. Or try adding a different
amount, maybe a little less. You could turn up the heat a little, just
don't go over about 90 degrees F, as you don't want to cook your
bacteria. The point is, whatever you are doing routinely, just do it a
little different for a few days to shake things up and get your cycle
rolling again. If all else fails, do a small water change of maybe
20%, but don't touch your gravel or filter.
During this second phase of the cycle is usually when nitrates
begin to appear and ammonia drops back down to 0. But every
tank's cycle seems to run a little bit different due to all sorts of
factors which could include seeded material added, heat, light,
concentrations of ammonia, and I suspect the chemical makeup of
our tap water. So it's not unusual to show readings of all three
components at the same time, or two, or even one at a time.
The thing to watch for is when you have a positive reading of
nitrates, and your ammonia and nitrites have both dropped back
down to 0. If you have achieved this, you are ready for a large water
change. If your nitrates are below 40ppm, do a 50% water change.
If your nitrates are over that amount, do about a 90% water change
to bring them back under control. Then add your original dose of
ammonia, wait 24 hours, and run your tests again. If ammonia and
nitrites are still 0, congratulations - you are finished and ready for
fish. Just don't forget to readjust your temperature to meet the fish
you want to keep, and give the heater enough time to stabilize.
This method of fishless cycling is usually quite a bit faster than
cycling with fish, but it can still seem like forever when you are
looking at an empty tank full of water. With a lot of established
material to start with, it can go as fast as just a couple of days. On
the other hand, with a completely sterile environment to start with,
it can take as long as a couple of months, depending on the
concentration of ammonia, heat, etc. The important thing to
remember here is to relax and be patient. The whole point of this
method is to provide a safe and healthy environment for our fish to
live in. And if you get impatient or nervous because your test
numbers seem to high, just remember the part about being patient.
You're not hurting any fish! And you're certainly not going to hurt a
box full of water with a little ammonia. Besides, a bottle of ammonia
is a lot less expensive than fish, and can cycle a lot more (and
bigger) tanks than just one fish can.
Take this time to research the kind of fish you would like to have.
And if you also want to have live plants, this would be the perfect
time to do a little aquascaping. Plants will consume the nitrates
and help to keep them under control, and provide extra surface area
for nitrifying bacteria. As an added bonus, they will also bring in
bacteria of their own, the same kind you are trying to establish, as
long as you don't let them dry out or rinse them in water containing
chlorine. If you feel you must rinse them before putting them in your
tank, do so in dechlorinated water to protect the bacteria.
So what are you still reading this for? Go get your ammonia and
create that perfect new home for your fish. Remember this is not an
exact science, so don't be afraid to experiment with it to see what
works for you. Relax, be patient, and have fun with it!
Here's wishing you a lifetime of healthy, happy fishkeeping!
Rebecca Townsend
 

dmoe

New Member
Thanks everyone!!
I really appreciate anyone taking time to help.I had never even heard of fishless cycling.And Rebecca,after all that,I should be able to go on vacation,& just let my dog watch the tank.LOL.
Seiriously though,
Much Thanks!!!!
dmoe
P.S.
Printed it all!!!
 

fshhub

Active Member
as for the filter queston
personally, I would wait to use it. Wait until youcna put it into a fw tank.
conventional filters are not often used in SW tanks that much anymore. And even less, UGFs, most of us actually see them as a problem device. And with plenty of reason.
If you are still cycleing, what I would do is research UGF's and biological filters a bit more, and then decide what you want to do. Right now, is the best time to remove the UGF, if you are going to. Most us eventually do adn doing so now, while the tank is not cycled, is best b/c removing it while the tank is stocked, can create even more problems and even a cycle which is NOT a good thing when your tank is full of inhabitants.
We have lots of info and opinions on this board, concerning
biological filtration
skimmers
UGF's
DSB's
Live rock
and wet dry filters, as well as cartridge and canitser filters and hang on box filters.
Look around, you will find the answers you need.
 
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