Air Stones Cause Gas Bubble Disease Fact or Myth???
- Thread starter gemmy
- Start date
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm
Corey gave me this link and I read over it. They make some interesting points. For the home aquarium with a couple of airstones, I don't see it creating any fish mortality. The water would have to be overly super saturated with atmospheric gases to create any problems. It's not a matter of bubbles getting caught in the gills (that's the myth) but nitrogen gas building up in the fishes blood (like getting the bends from diving) that is the problem. I only see it as a problem if you want to make your display tank into a protein skimmer and hoping that your fish will live...
Here is a link to part of the discussion in another thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388982/55-gallon-build-thread-will-need-some-advice-tips-along-the-way#post_3434347 you may find interesting as well.
Corey gave me this link and I read over it. They make some interesting points. For the home aquarium with a couple of airstones, I don't see it creating any fish mortality. The water would have to be overly super saturated with atmospheric gases to create any problems. It's not a matter of bubbles getting caught in the gills (that's the myth) but nitrogen gas building up in the fishes blood (like getting the bends from diving) that is the problem. I only see it as a problem if you want to make your display tank into a protein skimmer and hoping that your fish will live...
Here is a link to part of the discussion in another thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388982/55-gallon-build-thread-will-need-some-advice-tips-along-the-way#post_3434347 you may find interesting as well.
gemmy
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434351
http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm
Corey gave me this link and I read over it. They make some interesting points. For the home aquarium with a couple of airstones, I don't see it creating any fish mortality. The water would have to be overly super saturated with atmospheric gases to create any problems. It's not a matter of bubbles getting caught in the gills (that's the myth) but nitrogen gas building up in the fishes blood (like getting the bends from diving) that is the problem. I only see it as a problem if you want to make your display tank into a protein skimmer and hoping that your fish will live...
Here is a link to part of the discussion in another thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388982/55-gallon-build-thread-will-need-some-advice-tips-along-the-way#post_3434347 you may find interesting as well.
That thread is why I started this one.
I think air bubbles should not be in a marine tank for many reasons, but GBD is not one of them. Like you said, GBD comes from the environment being super saturated with O2.
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434351
http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm
Corey gave me this link and I read over it. They make some interesting points. For the home aquarium with a couple of airstones, I don't see it creating any fish mortality. The water would have to be overly super saturated with atmospheric gases to create any problems. It's not a matter of bubbles getting caught in the gills (that's the myth) but nitrogen gas building up in the fishes blood (like getting the bends from diving) that is the problem. I only see it as a problem if you want to make your display tank into a protein skimmer and hoping that your fish will live...
Here is a link to part of the discussion in another thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388982/55-gallon-build-thread-will-need-some-advice-tips-along-the-way#post_3434347 you may find interesting as well.
That thread is why I started this one.
I think air bubbles should not be in a marine tank for many reasons, but GBD is not one of them. Like you said, GBD comes from the environment being super saturated with O2.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Yeah, GBD happens in the blood, not in the gills. The absolute main reason why I don't think an airstone/bubbler belongs is because of the salt creep. It also makes the tank look artificial, which is something that doesn't appeal to me...
travelerjp98
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434348
Discuss.
haha.. Thanks Krista!
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434348
Discuss.
haha.. Thanks Krista!
travelerjp98
Active Member
I have always run an air stone, and have never had any problems. It doesn't create that much salt creep. In fact, minimal to no salt creep at all. Air stones can easily be concealed in a tank...
travelerjp98
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434351
http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm
This article is quite interesting. But- the fish are only affected if there are tons of air bubbles in the water. Now, if you have enough air stones to make the water milky because of so many bubbles being created by the air stones.... well.... there is an issue.
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434351
http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm
This article is quite interesting. But- the fish are only affected if there are tons of air bubbles in the water. Now, if you have enough air stones to make the water milky because of so many bubbles being created by the air stones.... well.... there is an issue.
2quills
Well-Known Member
I think you guys are right, air pumps/stones, wands, etc, are probably not a problem for fish. When I kept my fish in quarantine for 3 months after a move we made a couple summers ago I ran two of the long bubble/curtain style stones on the back side of the tank the whole time with no problems. I also always had them in my freshwater tanks. In all cases I witnessed many types of fishes actually love to swim in the bubbles, sometimes seeming as though they were actually playing in them. If bubbles were stressing them out, then it certainly didn't appear that way to me. And I cannot recall a single situation that has ever led me to believe that I lost a single fish because of this. Now if you're running compressed oxygen on a tank, and blowing it strait into a tank that has minimal space for the gases to dissolve in to the point where the water becomes milky looking, then I could see that possibly being a problem.
geoj
Active Member
This is very funny to me. The myth comes from fishing tournaments that practices catch and release. Fish caught out on the lake are put in a livewell and were subjected to micro clouds of very fine air that filled the livewells such that the fish could not escape damage to there gills. Before the study the tournament operators thought the added air was helping keep the fish alive.
So no, air stones do not have the same effect as seen in the fishing tournaments. If you used enough air stones such that you could not see the fish very well in the milky white cloud then you would be getting closer.
So no, air stones do not have the same effect as seen in the fishing tournaments. If you used enough air stones such that you could not see the fish very well in the milky white cloud then you would be getting closer.
sepulatian
Moderator
Air stones in a salt tank are pretty much useless. The water is more dense than the bubbles. The bubbles go straight up and do not give ANY oxygen to the water. Unless a fish swims right through them, they can benefit very little from air stones, bubble wands, etc. The surface of the water has to be broken and then the oxygen pushed through it... such as a HOB filter and powerheads.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepulatian http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434456
Air stones in a salt tank are pretty much useless. The water is more dense than the bubbles. The bubbles go straight up and do not give ANY oxygen to the water. Unless a fish swims right through them, they can benefit very little from air stones, bubble wands, etc. The surface of the water has to be broken and then the oxygen pushed through it... such as a HOB filter and powerheads.
Do you think that the same thing could then be said about skimmers as being useless in regards to adding oxygen to the water column?
Originally Posted by sepulatian http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434456
Air stones in a salt tank are pretty much useless. The water is more dense than the bubbles. The bubbles go straight up and do not give ANY oxygen to the water. Unless a fish swims right through them, they can benefit very little from air stones, bubble wands, etc. The surface of the water has to be broken and then the oxygen pushed through it... such as a HOB filter and powerheads.
Do you think that the same thing could then be said about skimmers as being useless in regards to adding oxygen to the water column?
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434463
In my reading airstones or wands are .....well......meh.
In a planted tank they will tend to add Co2 where it is low, and depleter Co2 where it is high to a level of 5 +-1 or so.
Otherwise look at the pretty bubbles. And oh look at all that white crusty junk all over.
lol they can create quite a mess. When I was running the bubble curtains on the back of my quarantine tank I used some strips of acrylic on the back side of the tank as covers. Not to cover the whole tank but just along the back where the bubbles were bursting.
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434463
In my reading airstones or wands are .....well......meh.
In a planted tank they will tend to add Co2 where it is low, and depleter Co2 where it is high to a level of 5 +-1 or so.
Otherwise look at the pretty bubbles. And oh look at all that white crusty junk all over.
lol they can create quite a mess. When I was running the bubble curtains on the back of my quarantine tank I used some strips of acrylic on the back side of the tank as covers. Not to cover the whole tank but just along the back where the bubbles were bursting.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
I have argued in the past that skimmers do not oxygenate the water as well as one might think. I read on an online magazine one time where they measured o2 levels before and after a skimmer and there was only a very small difference. I've been trying to stumble across the article again for quite some time without success.
gemmy
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434467
Do you think that the same thing could then be said about skimmers as being useless in regards to adding oxygen to the water column?
I did not think the purpose of skimmers was to oxygenate the water.
I'm still learning.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434467
Do you think that the same thing could then be said about skimmers as being useless in regards to adding oxygen to the water column?
I did not think the purpose of skimmers was to oxygenate the water.
I'm still learning.
spanko
Active Member
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php
Here is part 1 and 3 for those interested.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php
Here is part 1 and 3 for those interested.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php
travelerjp98
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434490
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php
Here is part 1 and 3 for those interested.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php
Thanks for providing those links. I'll read them!
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434490
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php
Here is part 1 and 3 for those interested.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php
Thanks for providing those links. I'll read them!
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434484
I have argued in the past that skimmers do not oxygenate the water as well as one might think. I read on an online magazine one time where they measured o2 levels before and after a skimmer and there was only a very small difference. I've been trying to stumble across the article again for quite some time without success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434486
I did not think the purpose of skimmers was to oxygenate the water.
I'm still learning.
No that's not their intended purpose. But I've always heard people saying how a skimmer adds oxygen to the water. However, look over some other data would suggest that pumping Air into the system is not necessarily oxygenating it. Because Air and Oxygen are two different things. I've seen that alot, especially when talking about carbon/vodka dosing and why SOME say it's necessary to run a skimmer when doing so.
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434484
I have argued in the past that skimmers do not oxygenate the water as well as one might think. I read on an online magazine one time where they measured o2 levels before and after a skimmer and there was only a very small difference. I've been trying to stumble across the article again for quite some time without success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/388998/air-stones-cause-gas-bubble-disease-fact-or-myth#post_3434486
I did not think the purpose of skimmers was to oxygenate the water.
I'm still learning.
No that's not their intended purpose. But I've always heard people saying how a skimmer adds oxygen to the water. However, look over some other data would suggest that pumping Air into the system is not necessarily oxygenating it. Because Air and Oxygen are two different things. I've seen that alot, especially when talking about carbon/vodka dosing and why SOME say it's necessary to run a skimmer when doing so.
spanko
Active Member
Table 4. Effects of photosynthesis or aeration devices on oxygen levels in hypoxic seawater (initial O2 at 89.2% saturation) expressed as a percentage of oxygen saturation at 35psu. When the airstone was placed under the powerhead to mix the air and water into a froth which was then allowed to settle before a reading was taken, oxygen saturation reached 91.1% within 20 minutes.