All my fish are going into convulsions :(

[bobothewizard]

I hope its not the electric power line thats laying in the tank sparking.. No im only kidding but they really are going into convulsions. I have a 55 gal tank with 4 clowns and 1 yellow tang and the clowns seem like every now and then they will flip onto there side and just shake like a convulsion then flip back over and continue swimming. The tang on the other hand every so often just shakes and then swims around the tank really fast and then goes back to normal. I also see the tang scraping against the rocks once in a while so im not sure if this is ich or not. One thing to note though is the clowns have been in there since around february and the tang just a week or 2. Any ideas of what could be wrong would be helpful.
[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Bobothewizard ]

 

[beth]

Sounds like ick brought in by the tang. Did you quarantine????
What is your ammonia and nitrite readings as well as PH??

 

[bobothewizard]

No i didnt quarantine, but the clowns had this problem a while ago. Can i just get a medicine for the ich? Also forgot to mention in the previous post that there are anenomies in the tank, only one but this could cause some problems with the treatment of the ich since I think the cells of the anenomie will be affected.
Im at work right now so ill post the readings tongight when i get home
[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Bobothewizard ]

 

[beth]

Yes, post the reading before proceding, but you might as well know that if you have inverts, LR or LS that you cannot treat your fish in the tank.
Let us know how your tank is setup as well, and whether you can quarentine.

 

[bobothewizard]

Ok im at home now, ill give you the total readings first
Salinity1.0235
Temp 26*C/79*F
pH 8.6
Ammonia Total0.05
Alkalinity 3.2
Nitrites0
Im not sure what you mean by the tank being set up. Is it whats in it? If so ill give you a little run down of it.
55 gallon, with Protein Skimmer, UnderGravel Filter with 2 powerheads, and one external Penguin Filter. 1 rather large and 1 rather small piece of live rock, 1 leather Anenomy and one bubble tip anenomy and also 4 Perculia Clowns and one Yellow tang.
Dam forgot to tell ya, no quarantine I guess i should prolly get a 10 gallong tank or so for just that.
[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Bobothewizard ]

 

[playtime]

your ph is a little on the high side, It should read 8.3
I can tell you from experience that quarantine is the best way to avoid ich. I decided that with the 25 gal that used to be the reef, it will now be my QT tank. I have been pretty lucky that I haven't had ich in a while but I also haven't added anything new to the tanks. Right now, I will focus on corals instead of fish. Just so the tank wont be bare, I will probably keep a few damsels in there.
The great thing about QT is that should 1 fish get sick, you can take it out, and treat it with what ever meds are necessary without medicating the whole tank.
Playtime

 

[bobothewizard]

Ok im not really sure about this ick thing. If i QT the fish in a different tank, add some copper and then make sure they are ok then add them back into the tank wont the ick just come back? I mean wont it still be in the tank?
Im not really sure if this is ICK or not, i mean the fish have no discoloration and there eating fine.
[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Bobothewizard ]

 

[playtime]

Ich isn't always noticable until it is pretty bad. Scratching on rocks isn't a good sign though. It wouldn't hurt to take them all out and treat them in a qt with copper for about 3 weeks. That should be enough time for the ich that is in the tank to die from starvation because they don't have a host (fish) to feed on. It will be hard to treat them in the tank because you can't use copper with inverts. Some people have had luck with the garlic, do a search and you will see how to use it. Beth says hyposalinity works great too. Do a search about that too. Inverts don't get ich so you needn't worry about that.
Playtime

 

[bobothewizard]

Okie doeky, ill do a search on those 2 things and see what i can read about it. Thank you both very much for helping me with this, me and my wife have only been doing this since december when she got me the tank for christmas. Anyway, thanks again for the help its greatly appreciated.

 

[bobothewizard]

Okie doeky, ill do a search on those 2 things and see what i can read about it. Thank you both very much for helping me with this, me and my wife have only been doing this since december when she got me the tank for christmas. Anyway, thanks again for the help its greatly appreciated.

 

[beth]

Well, sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
You're problem is AMMONIA! Which is what I thought, which is why I asked you about your readings. Fish cannot tolerate for long the ammonia in your tank. Get some AmmoLoc and do daily water changes until you get that ammonia down to ZERO.
Now, however, since your fish have been stressed out of their gills due to ammonia, you could well be seeing the beginning signs of ick. Stress on fish will certainly cause this. First get that ammonia down before proceding to any treatments.
In the meantime, feed your fish garlic soaked foods. Be prepared with a quarentine tank if that becomes necessary....and, no, don't put any other fish in a quarentine tank just for decoration. QT is for keeping fish on a temporary basis, not to showcase other fish. And, especially DAMSELS, that will become very territorial in a small tank and will chew up new fish that you put in there--fish that you actually want to QT.
As I said, proceed with getting rid of the ammonia and get your PH down down down down to 8.0. Unfortunately, not only is your PH too high, but it is too high at the wrong time! High PH, in combination with ammonia, is lethel to fish. Get it down.
Ultimately, find the source of that ammonia and eliminate it. Dead fish, overfeeding, live rock decay, what ever it is, you need to address it.
[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]

 

[bobothewizard]

Ok ill get some stuff for the ammonia levels but how do i know if the live rock is decaying? Is it the pieces that fall off and fall to the bottom of the tank? If so should i take those pieces out?

 

[beth]

You need to do more than get some stuff for the ammonia. You need to do water changes until the ammonia is gone, and you need bring down the PH.
Live rock shouldn't be falling off. If it is, then, I'd say that is the problem. Decaying LR will also look unhealthy and stink.

 

[bobothewizard]

Ok i think i should be good to go, i got some DeNitrate, that goes in the plastic thingies in the filter and also some pH stabilizer which it says will bring the pH down to a constant 8.0 Tomorrow ill pull the pieces of live rock out that are lying on the bottom and do a partial water change, maybe 25%. I also got one of those bubble wands that stick along the back bottom of the tank to help circulate the water around a bit, its kinda big, 23" but it should help circulate the water. The FINE looking lady at the fish store also did a water test, just because i was curious to see if my test kit was accurate, she said my ammonia was one level away from critical. Thank god i found this in time before every thing bit the dust..
Anyway ill keep you updated on how things are going. Thanks again.
[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: Bobothewizard ]

 

[beth]

You should have bought an AmmoniaLock product while at the LFS...nitrates are the least of your problems.
Hope your fish can wait til tommorrow.

 

[bobothewizard]

This DeNitrate is what they recommended at the fish store to lower the ammonia. Im also starting to feed the fish the garlic oiled brine You right, i will remove the pieces of rock now. Is it also ok to treat the ph and the ammonia at the same time?

 

[bobothewizard]

Kinda funky.... I just pulled out the pieces of live rock and i dont think they were dead, are they supposed to smell like lickorish?

 

[beth]

Well, you should have listened to what I told you to, instead of what the "fine looking lady" at the LFS said! LOL I've been right so far, now haven't I??!
Now, nitrate is not your problem. Ammonia is your biggest problem and nitrite is your next biggest problem. The Ammonia Lock that I told you to get would have stabilized the ammonia situation in your tank to a degree. If you have saltwater mixed up now and ready to go, I'd suggest you do your water change NOW, and not wait til tomorrow.
Additionally, do as Terry suggested above and slowly bring your PH down to 8.0. Do not rush bringing the PH down, else your fish will have yet another major stressor to deal with.
Additionally, I hope you really are not adding garlic oil to your fish food. You need to add GARLIC to your fish food. Pure garlic or pure garlic extract, not garlic oil. All you need now is an oil slick in your tank....jeez....
I never heard of LR smelling like candy, but if it doesn't smell decayed, and it LOOKs alive and healthy then it is probably ok. Look for another reason for the ammonia spike. There must be a reason. Dead creature, overfeeding, too many creatures, not enough water movement...something.
[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]

 

[bobothewizard]

But ... but she was soo nice Ok im mixing up some water now before i hit the sack, its 11pm here and im afraid ill fall alseep or pass out in the tank lol. So, if i do a partial water change that will bring the amonia down at least somewhat right? If so, what did i buy this deNitrate for? Ugh i hope these fish dont die, my clowns finally start hanging out in my anenomy.. And im serious about the live rock smelling like candy, hehe must be that crazy water in Fuji. Ok im off to bed...

 

[bobothewizard]

Just wanted to tell everyone my levels are all back down. Ammonia is zero and pH is around 8.0 Thanks a bunch for all the help and the fish look much much better.