Alot of ???? Very wet behind the ears.

serpentine5

Member
ok, I am extremely new to all of this, and your lingo is like reading Greek.
I am running a 55 gallon
50 pounds of LR
@60 pounds of sand with about 5 pounds of LS that was removed from an establisted dealers reef tank
1 PH (powerhead) 300 gph
1 Emperer 300 power filter
1 Whisper 60 power filter
1 Prizm skimmer
1 65X4 JBJ CP light 2 10,000k day and 2 6,500 blue actinic the blue come on an hour before the day lights and stay on an hour after the day light go off. The day lights are on for right at 10 hours a day.
As for amimals, I have:
5 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp
20 Hawaiian Zebra Hermits
15 Peppermint Shrimp
25 Scarlet Reef Hermits
25 Blueleg Hermits
40 Turbo Snails
1 Emerald Crab
1 blood red fire shrimp
4 shaving brush
This tank has been running like this fully for about a week. The last part added was the light.
I built it starting with the tank, a standard tube light, I added the wisper PF, then: sand, lace rock (20 pounds), the powerhead, the Emperer PF, the cleaner package from saltwaterfish, the shaving brush, 50 pounds of LR, more shrimp and snails and hermits, then the light finally was added. I lost one of the original shaving brush. I pulled it and tossed it. My ammonia only spiked once after the live rock was added. I change my water at about a 25% rate every 5 or six days and will do this for a total of 6 weeks after the LR was added, I have about 4 1/2 weeks left. I use tap water that is put into a 5 gallon bucket where my salt and stress coat is added. I leave the water there until I can see clearly to the bottom of the bucket, then I use a battery powered sump pump to pump the water into my tank. I do this until I get my water level to where I want it. Then I use a refractomiter to test the salinity level and level it out to right at 1.023. And I do check my salinity about once every other day. I do have what I think is salt build up on the glass tops and on the front of my power filters. (A friend told me he read that it was more than just salt, but a combonation of salt calcium and other things so never scrape it back into the tank.)
I have been loosing a lot of my snails. I find them on the sand bed being eaten by my shrimp.
Three days ago, I found my tank was just covered with the brown algea that I am reading about in the previous posts. I cleaned the front and sides of my tank, but cannot get to the back side. Today, I added three chemicals that a freind gave me and told me that is all he uses. while or just shortly after I added these chemicals i noticed the rear of my tank was virtually clean of the brown stuff that was all over the tank the other day. Is this normal. The three chemicals I added were 10mL each of:
(all seachem) Reef Complete, Reef Calcium, and Reef Plus. I did not notice the disipearance of the brown stuff before I added the chemicals, but I doubt that if the chemicals would have done anything to it in such a short period of time, I noticed it being gone within ten to fifteen minuted after I added the chemicals.
After reading this, please give feed back as to what you think I am doing right and doing wrong. Like I said, I have never done this before and it is a very expensive hobby and I cannot afford to screw up too much. Thanks for everyting. Mike
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
you really shouldnt have added any shrimp until your tank cycled on its own. By doing all the water changes you are working alot harder than you should have. An easy cycle would to have been add nothing to tank cept' live rock and sand. Toss in a dead shrimp from the grocery store. Let the ammonia spike, take the shrimp out and let your the levels drop back to 0--ammonia and nitrite. After the cycle do one 20-25% water change and then changes of 10% biweekly.
let me 1st ask this, you have 21 shrimp in a 55 gallon???
why do you have 15 peppermints?? Ive never seen someone with a shrimp overload. The reason your snails are dying might be b/c your shrimp are hungry. Also alot of times the hermits need larger shells so they kill the snails and take theres. I know shrimp dont add as much bioload to a tank but i think you should take some out. Id keep maybe at most 3 peppermints, 3 scarlets, and your fire. Even that would be alot of shrimp.
Not letting your tank cycle properly though is probably the cause of any deaths.
The chemicals wouldnt have any affect on diatoms(brown algae). The brown algae can also be caused by tap water containing phosphates. Id check it out if you continue to use it, or start using RO (reverse osmosis) or RO/DI (reverse osmosis/deionized) water.
You might have some more deaths, inverts are very sensitive to water conditions specifially salinity and temperature. If it were me i would take them all back, but being 20+ shrimp thats alot. Maybe someone else will have a little more help.
Feel free to ask questions, your're right this hobby is expensive enough w/o making mistakes.
Mark
 

serpentine5

Member
I am sorry, I did not specify, there was a time poriod between each new addition. I believe I set the tank up with one power filter, the sand, 20 pounds of lace rock, the power head and the skimmer. It was a while before anything else was added. From what I was told, with the LS and the tiem it took to add anything else, the tank cycled then. I started to get green algea blooms in the sand bed and everyone I talked to about it told me that was a sign that the tank had cycled.
I do try to keep the tank at 79 degrees, I use a titaniun 300watt heater, and both a glass and digital (not sticker on outside of tank) thermometer.
I have not checked phosfate levels, what should they be at?
The only three things I really know are the nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia levels. I do not know where anything else should be or what else I should be checking.
As for the abundence of shrimp, they are all cool, and I feed them flake and shrimp, I do not see them killing the snails because they are hungry, they eat them if they are on the sandbed and dying or already dead. Same with the the hermits, the hermits have plenty of larger shells to choose from that are already on the sandbed. And I heave never seen the hermits eating a snail, just the shrimp. If a hermit killed a shrimp, wouldn't he eat it too, or atleast try to until he was chased away?
Ok, so you think I should cut back on my water changes, to 10% ever other week and to use RO. If I do not intend to add any fish for a long time do you still think I should remove some shrimp?
The shrimp are just too cook. I sit for hours infront of the tank and watch these guys. They provide alot of entertainment.
 

birdy

Active Member
I think the question here is did your tank actually cycle?
What are your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate readings right now.
If your tank did cycle and you still have an ammonia reading then there is a problem probably adding 50lbs of LR at one time
time even if it is fully cured you will almost always put your tank into a minicyle, this could be why your snails are dying.
A reason for the snails dying and nothing else could be starvation, snails need microalgae to live they really won't eat anything else. Remove the snails when you see that they are dead they will add to the ammonia problem.
Since you have all that livestock in there you should probably continue to do the waterchanges or you will lose everything.
 

goldrush

Member
No one suggested that your hermits are killing your shrimp. It was stated that inverts need pristine water conditions. What you really need to do is SLOOOOW DOWN! You need to check phosphates. You said there was a time period between each addition,yet you say the tank has been running for about a week.We are here to help,but we need accurate info. Good Luck.
 

serpentine5

Member

Originally posted by goldrush
No one suggested that your hermits are killing your shrimp. It was stated that inverts need pristine water conditions. What you really need to do is SLOOOOW DOWN! You need to check phosphates. You said there was a time period between each addition,yet you say the tank has been running for about a week.We are here to help,but we need accurate info. Good Luck.

I started building this tank last November. I finally added the LR about three weeks ago (more like 2 1/2 weeks ago I think). and the 4X65 JBJ PC lights were added about a week and a half ago. The lights were the last thing I added. I guess I should have kept trak of dates and all but thats not me. I dont keep "records" of anything very well.
 

serpentine5

Member
I just tested the PH, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite in my tank using the "Saltwater Master Liquid Test Kit" (I hate these color coded things.) And here are my results:
Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10-20, the color in the vial was not there on the reference card, so i am guessing that it is between these numbers.
PH: 8.8 or so, the color did not match exactly here either.
I do not have a Phosfate test kit, but I will be getting one today and post back its results. Thanks.
 

serpentine5

Member

Originally posted by goldrush
Please read and reply to Birdy's post.

I thought I did in my two last posts. What am I missing?
My tank cycled for about 6 weeks with live sand and lace rock. Then I added the shrimp, snails, and hermits. It has cycled again since I added the LR, a mini cycle like he said. I just do not know where I am, what my readings should be, or what I should be reading (testing) for.
 

birdy

Active Member
Hey I am she not a He :D
At this point you should be testing for and the levels should be:
Ph around 8.3
Alk around 10dkh
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate below 20
Phosphate 0
Your ammonia is too high probably still from the LR, if you don't want to loose all your inverts continue to do the waterchanges, I think you will be battling this for a while. The Ammonia level is probably why your snails are dying.
As far as adding additives, I try to only add things that I can test for. I rely on water changes for most of the trace elements, I do add buffers when needed to bring the Ph and Alk to proper levels. I also test the calcium level and keep it around 400-450.
 

azeritis

Member
There must be many people here that speak Greek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On a serious note Birdy is right on target. However, just a clarification. Your pH is way off 8.5 is like the upper limmit. In addition, when you measure pH, fluctuations between night and day readings are normal. At higher pH values ammonia becomes even more toxic.
If you want my opinion try to solve the problem by massive water changes at first, and then find its cause.
What kind of water do you use?
 

timo

Member
Tap water IME somehow makes the snails fall off glass. Once down, and on their back, they can't right themselves. Shrimp then can eat it.
 

serpentine5

Member
I am using tap water for the change. I prepare the water in a 5 gallon bucket, I put in four gallons of tap water, add Stress Coat to the water and swish it arround. Then I add two cups of "Instant Ocean" salt. I use a battery powered sump pump to pump the water into the tank after the water has cleared and I can see the bottom of the bucket.
 

serpentine5

Member

Originally posted by TimO
Tap water IME somehow makes the snails fall off glass. Once down, and on their back, they can't right themselves. Shrimp then can eat it.

Whenever I see a snail on its back and it is not being eaten, then I use a set of long tongs to right it. It will then slither away.
 

serpentine5

Member
Sorry Birdy, She Not He. I will try to remember but I will probably forget. I have a real problem associating a gender to people I meet and correspond with on the net. So if I do slip up and refer to you as a he again, just slap me then forgive me. Thanks in advance.
 

goldrush

Member
When you mix the water it's a good idea to let a powerhead run in it for 24-48 hours. Check the salinity and temperature in relation to your tank water. I also use RO?DI water,not tap. Try not to add anything else until the Ammonia is ZERO!
 

serpentine5

Member
If I was able to mix up more water at a time, I would leave a power head in it for 24/48 hours, but I can only do 4-5 gallons at a time.
I will see about RO water around town, check on prices and what not.
As for the phosphate tester, I went out to get one, and found one kit that was priced for $50 so I did not buy it. I will check around the ne to see about getting one for phosphate and alkilinity. Might be afew weeks before i am able to get them.
 
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