An Interesting Statistic....

sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
YearoftheNick, this is EXACTLY the reason most of the world hates us. Its a good point to bring up, but I'm sure by this time tomorrow the republican bandwagon will have moved in to dismiss it as our right.
Now, I believe that our financial ability has provided us with this privilege, but we continually think we are in need when the poorest in this nation are better off than some of the richest in poor countries. Obviously though our homeless aren't, but making 10k/year in this country is poor while in another country that person would not be poor. It is the ultimate wealth disparity. You can see it in our own country as well as the world. You can't debate that it doesn't exist, but you can debate the reasons for it.
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2938417
Perhaps his next statistic class should be the percentage of aid given out from our country in relation to every other country combined
.
You don't like math very much, huh? Statistics can be manipulated, but over all they tell a truth. Stay in your shell if you don't like statistics that make americans feel guilty. How else is one to measure such things???
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938423
Actually, if we were efficiently allocating these resources (which is why economists exist) it wouldn't have to be a gain at another's expense.....that is just the capitalist way....
And before someone says we are using these resources efficiently....what is happening to our jobs?
I think we need to clarify what "40% of world's resources" means. I looked at the links and couldn't find anything....
I assumed it meant that the US bought 40% of the stuff made. Or we talking about 40% of natural resources? Labor resources?
 
U

usirchchris

Guest

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938426
You don't like math very much, huh? Statistics can be manipulated, but over all they tell a truth. Stay in your shell if you don't like statistics that make americans feel guilty. How else is one to measure such things???

You missed my point friend...right over ya'...oh well...Measuring it is fine...the numbers are fine, I wish they were higher. I don't like that a more than likely negative picture is being used with those numbers given the context which was used in the sermon. Has nothing to do with the numbers or the math. You are probably just like them though. It's cool, I like this country, you don't. Bet you voted for Obama too... Enjoy your opinion
.
 
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usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2938421
No thanks. Probably not worth the effort.
I'm just saying that if we had an attitude of giving instead of taking, this would could be a totally different place. We could learn compassion for each other, or we could learn to totally take advantage of each other... probably the latter haha.
Not worth the effort...so what we take should be carefully tabulated, but what we give is irrelevant

Why do you think we lack a giving spirit?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2938408
Alright, I'll be the bad guy, I don't see the point. If we use 40%, 60%, or more. My running theory is that's how the world works. Not every country can have families that have 3 cars or 3000sq. ft. houses. As brute as this sounds, 3rd countries are a necessary part if there's going to be developed nations. Just because the US uses the most stuff doesn't make us the bad guys.
If I had to live in a one room shack and pedal a bicycle to work, just so someone in Africa, or Asia or European could also have a shack and a bicycle, my 100% honest answer is probably not.
See I disagree, there will always be income disparity, because not everyone was created equal in terms of ideas, work ethic, or other things that create wealth. To top that off, they aren't born into a society that was founded on an idea of freedom, where most limitations to your ability to create wealth were ones you put on yourself.
However, 3rd world countries aren't a necessity for us to be rich. This idea is stemmed on observations of Feudalism by Marx and other socialist philosophers.
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2938415
haha!
Well it is an excellent argument when you are debating the existence of balance. Clearly it's off. You would assume that in a PERFECT world (which is completely unattainable by human means) for every 6% of the world's population, there would be 6% of resources used to sustain them. I was a little shocked by that 40% statistic myself...
Regardless of who said it, we are piggies in this world and the statistics prove it. I'm not mad because someone gave me this knowledge, but kinda grossed out. But I don't think I am personally imbalanced as much as some...
To give an example, despite the recession, the gov't dished out $18 Billion in bonuses this year... there's your piggies. There's the imbalance. I just think since we share the world with everyone else, we should be more responsible with it. Just because the atlantic separates us from africa doesn't mean we need to completely ignore them.
There are a few inaccuracies in this statement. The government didn't dish out 18 billion dollars in bonuses. Private corporations did. If I'm not mistaken the salacious number is taken from wall street firms.
However to discuss your point. You do realise that in 2007 that number was 33 billion? Think about it, if these companies profits stayed aligned with the Dow which dropped from 14k to 8k. They're actually decreasing bonus's faster than the Dow dropped. The percentage change from one year to the next was -45% in bonuses and -42% in the Dow. If you did use the actual math vs the rounded numbers it is probably statistically the same.
So I'm not really seeing a problem? These aren't the piggies...
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Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938423
Actually, if we were efficiently allocating these resources (which is why economists exist) it wouldn't have to be a gain at another's expense.....that is just the capitalist way....
And before someone says we are using these resources efficiently....what is happening to our jobs?
It is funny to see Marx philosophies in your post, especially one railing about the efficient allocation of resources.
I've never seen a Marxist country come close to the USA, in allocation of resources, despite the imperfections we do have in our markets.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2938617
Not worth the effort...so what we take should be carefully tabulated, but what we give is irrelevant

Why do you think we lack a giving spirit?
No, you miss the point of my statement. My lack of drive had nothing to do with the statistics themselves or their validity.... it had everything to do with the fact that I don't want to spend 2 hours of my life compiling statistics just so we can have a little discussion about them
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2938617
Why do you think we lack a giving spirit?
Dude, we totally lack a giving spirit. Some people in the U.S. are so selfish, they won't even give the right of way to pedestrians, and that's the law.
When I say "give," I mean it in many forms. What if our nation's gov't started sending fresh water over to Africa without any request for finanical return. It will cost $3 million each year to supply everyone in africa with fresh water. every day. We can do that as a gov't. We're blowing money left and right on ourselves, and borrowing it from the rest of the world just to do it.
But seriously, just imagine if our gov't did that for Africa. Imagine what impact it would have by that single act of kindness. I think it will usher in a new kind of peace that we've needed for a long time. Sure, some nations will call us idiots, but if we're actually doing good, then their loss.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2938762
Dude, we totally lack a giving spirit. Some people in the U.S. are so selfish, they won't even give the right of way to pedestrians, and that's the law.
When I say "give," I mean it in many forms. What if our nation's gov't started sending fresh water over to Africa without any request for finanical return. It will cost $3 million each year to supply everyone in africa with fresh water. every day. We can do that as a gov't. We're blowing money left and right on ourselves, and borrowing it from the rest of the world just to do it.
But seriously, just imagine if our gov't did that for Africa. Imagine what impact it would have by that single act of kindness. I think it will usher in a new kind of peace that we've needed for a long time. Sure, some nations will call us idiots, but if we're actually doing good, then their loss.
You know how much $$ we send to africa every year?
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2938776
You know how much $$ we send to africa every year?
Nope, but my guess would be not enough. And if you do know how much we send to africa, how much of it is given without any need for return?
If you're talking about churches and religious organizations giving money, then yes, totally that happens. MANY churches give to africa. I'm talking about a larger scale. I'm talking about the U.S. Gov't.
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2938633
It is funny to see Marx philosophies in your post, especially one railing about the efficient allocation of resources.
I've never seen a Marxist country come close to the USA, in allocation of resources, despite the imperfections we do have in our markets.
Marx? Wasn't the free market used as the best way to allocate resources?
oikonomia, "management of a household, administration".
Economic philosophy is based on the principles of scarcity of natural resources and how to efficiently use them...
Maybe we have a difference on what we got our degrees in, I don't know.
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2938597
It's cool, I like this country, you don't. Bet you voted for Obama too... Enjoy your opinion
.
Yep....I just hate this wonderful country.....

I suppose if I don't agree with you I'm unamerican.....I thought that was one of the great things about this country...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Exactly what percentage of our resource usage produces the goods, services and financial capital that is given away on every corner of the planet?
 
darknes

darknes

Active Member
The US gave over $25 billion in foreign aid last year. The problem with most African countries is that their governments are corrupt and steal most of the money that should go to help their poor. We can't do much about that unless you want to go invade all those countries too.
http://www.parade.com/news/intellige...reign-aid.html
Also, I'd like to know where you get your number that only $3 million would give fresh water to all of Africa for a year....seems a little far fetched.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darknes
http:///forum/post/2938831
Also, I'd like to know where you get your number that only $3 million would give fresh water to all of Africa for a year....seems a little far fetched.
I actually saw it on a commercial, and no it wasn't from those pathetic childrens fund commercials.
But I think they're referring to those who don't have water. When you think about South Africa, much of it has been modernized. People live in homes with running water. Even tribes in the heart of afica have jungles with water that they can take from. This leaves us with the tribes living in the deserts and also the northern parts of Africa... when you think about the fact that maybe 1/4 (My estimate) of Africa's people actually need water, $3 million isn't that far-fetched. And we're talking about hiring trucks to bring the water from modernized areas to the tribes. Even less far-fetched when you add that into the equation.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darknes
http:///forum/post/2938831
The US gave over $25 billion in foreign aid last year. The problem with most African countries is that their governments are corrupt and steal most of the money that should go to help their poor. We can't do much about that unless you want to go invade all those countries too.
http://www.parade.com/news/intellige...reign-aid.html
This is an awesome site... thanks for showing us. I would agree with you that their foreign gov't's are corrupt... but to some degree, so is ours. It just sucks.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2938796
Nope, but my guess would be not enough. And if you do know how much we send to africa, how much of it is given without any need for return?
If you're talking about churches and religious organizations giving money, then yes, totally that happens. MANY churches give to africa. I'm talking about a larger scale. I'm talking about the U.S. Gov't.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...123000941.html
We give tons of money to africa.
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938423
Actually, if we were efficiently allocating these resources (which is why economists exist) it wouldn't have to be a gain at another's expense.....that is just the capitalist way....
And before someone says we are using these resources efficiently....what is happening to our jobs?

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938815
Marx? Wasn't the free market used as the best way to allocate resources?
oikonomia, "management of a household, administration".
Economic philosophy is based on the principles of scarcity of natural resources and how to efficiently use them...
Maybe we have a difference on what we got our degrees in, I don't know.
I'm sorry, in reading the other post I quoted, I read your post as the poetic, rich riding the backs of the poor.
It is possible that I could have misread it.
Albeit. Making money at other peoples expense, is a pretty negative way to phrase it...
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2938762
No, you miss the point of my statement. My lack of drive had nothing to do with the statistics themselves or their validity.... it had everything to do with the fact that I don't want to spend 2 hours of my life compiling statistics just so we can have a little discussion about them
Dude, we totally lack a giving spirit. Some people in the U.S. are so selfish, they won't even give the right of way to pedestrians, and that's the law.
When I say "give," I mean it in many forms. What if our nation's gov't started sending fresh water over to Africa without any request for finanical return. It will cost $3 million each year to supply everyone in africa with fresh water. every day. We can do that as a gov't. We're blowing money left and right on ourselves, and borrowing it from the rest of the world just to do it.
But seriously, just imagine if our gov't did that for Africa. Imagine what impact it would have by that single act of kindness. I think it will usher in a new kind of peace that we've needed for a long time. Sure, some nations will call us idiots, but if we're actually doing good, then their loss.
I am not talking about the validity of the numbers...you could say we take 100% of the resources on this planet and I would be fine with that. I just find it confusing that you will readily point to statistics showing how much we take, but seem to be indifferent about what we give back, but then turn around and say we should give more
. Nick, I like your thought provoking threads. Really I do...think we are just not going to see eye to eye on this one. Oh well, to each their own. See ya in another thread

I think the financial numbers would boggle your mind as to what we give in aid to other countries.
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938426
Stay in your shell if you don't like statistics that make americans feel guilty.

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938425
YearoftheNick, this is EXACTLY the reason most of the world hates us. Its a good point to bring up, but I'm sure by this time tomorrow the republican bandwagon will have moved in to dismiss it as our right.
Now, I believe that our financial ability has provided us with this privilege, but we continually think we are in need when the poorest in this nation are better off than some of the richest in poor countries. Obviously though our homeless aren't, but making 10k/year in this country is poor while in another country that person would not be poor. It is the ultimate wealth disparity. You can see it in our own country as well as the world. You can't debate that it doesn't exist, but you can debate the reasons for it.

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2938819
Yep....I just hate this wonderful country.....

I suppose if I don't agree with you I'm unamerican.....I thought that was one of the great things about this country...
Disagree away. I could care less, but don't send a condescending tone my way coupled with this point of view and expect me to give you a
on the patriotism scale.
 
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