Apache has a bloated pouch!!
- Thread starter monalisa
- Start date
monalisa
Active Member
Apache is hitching fine now. His breathing is normal, he's having a little bit of touble swimming yet at this point. I just read on the big horse site that slowly lowering the temperature might help. I put the clip on fan back onto the tank to run across the surface.
Last water change, I added an extra small heater to their tank (in the filter). Could that be what's going on? Should I unplug that heater as well? Temp in the tank is at about 77 degrees...not much different from what I've kept it at. Here's hoping.
I'll keep you posted. My fingers are crossed that he'll evacuate his pouch spontaneously like they're supposed to do.
Again, any help greatly appreciated.
Lisa
Last water change, I added an extra small heater to their tank (in the filter). Could that be what's going on? Should I unplug that heater as well? Temp in the tank is at about 77 degrees...not much different from what I've kept it at. Here's hoping.
I'll keep you posted. My fingers are crossed that he'll evacuate his pouch spontaneously like they're supposed to do.
Again, any help greatly appreciated.
Lisa
reefreak29
Active Member
pouch emphysema can be traced to decaying mater in the pouch, producing gases and causing the pouch to bloat and or physical air bubbles in the water column entering the pouch. Treatment of this is to first determine the problem. Check for air bubbles from power heads or your skimmer return. If there are no bubbles make sure the tank size is at least 3 times the height of the seahorse. This will allow ample space for the seahorse to exercise and flush out its pouch. For immediate relief you can manually remove the bubbles by gently rubbing the pouch with your fingers in an upward motion. For a recurring problem u can use an antibiotic neomycin does a good ob of relieving this.
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
pouch emphysema can be traced to decaying mater in the pouch, producing gases and causing the pouch to bloat and or physical air bubbles in the water column entering the pouch. Treatment of this is to first determine the problem. Check for air bubbles from power heads or your skimmer return. If there are no bubbles make sure the tank size is at least 3 times the height of the seahorse. This will allow ample space for the seahorse to exercise and flush out its pouch. For immediate relief you can manually remove the bubbles by gently rubbing the pouch with your fingers in an upward motion. For a recurring problem u can use an antibiotic neomycin does a good ob of relieving this.
Thanks reefreak,
Right now, Apache and Navajo are sleeping very comfortably on their captain's wheel. There are no bubbles in the water column...I run 2 Whisper filters adequate for 70 gallons in their 37 gallon tank. The tank is a 37 tall and is certainly a good size...I am in the process of planning an upgrade though.
I had heard about the manual evacuation, but I haven't done that yet since it seemed like he was going to spontaneously evacuate...is that possible?
I did get on the big horse site and found that slowly lowering the temp might help as well. As stated before, I put an extra (very small) heater in one of the filters this weekend, but tonight I placed the clip on fan back on to run across the top of the tank. Since then, things have settled down, so I suppose I need to see what happens tomorrow.
I will definitely pick up some neomycin tomorrow, just in case.
Will a water change be in order? I have water set up and ready to go tonight!!
Lisa
pouch emphysema can be traced to decaying mater in the pouch, producing gases and causing the pouch to bloat and or physical air bubbles in the water column entering the pouch. Treatment of this is to first determine the problem. Check for air bubbles from power heads or your skimmer return. If there are no bubbles make sure the tank size is at least 3 times the height of the seahorse. This will allow ample space for the seahorse to exercise and flush out its pouch. For immediate relief you can manually remove the bubbles by gently rubbing the pouch with your fingers in an upward motion. For a recurring problem u can use an antibiotic neomycin does a good ob of relieving this.
Thanks reefreak,
Right now, Apache and Navajo are sleeping very comfortably on their captain's wheel. There are no bubbles in the water column...I run 2 Whisper filters adequate for 70 gallons in their 37 gallon tank. The tank is a 37 tall and is certainly a good size...I am in the process of planning an upgrade though.
I had heard about the manual evacuation, but I haven't done that yet since it seemed like he was going to spontaneously evacuate...is that possible?
I did get on the big horse site and found that slowly lowering the temp might help as well. As stated before, I put an extra (very small) heater in one of the filters this weekend, but tonight I placed the clip on fan back on to run across the top of the tank. Since then, things have settled down, so I suppose I need to see what happens tomorrow.
I will definitely pick up some neomycin tomorrow, just in case.
Will a water change be in order? I have water set up and ready to go tonight!!
Lisa
reefreak29
Active Member
at this point just keep a close eye on him . if he gets worse i would go ahead and do a gentle pouch evac. good luck
darthtang aw
Active Member
IF you need to do a manual evac, gently grab the horse in your left hand, let him hitch on your pinky, gently hold the body with your index. THEn gently roll your thumb and spare finger up his pouch. If this doesnt work. Then sterilize the end of a bobby pin (blunt end all women have these) and once it cools repeat same procedure and gently tease the openning with the bobby pin, the pin may slide inside, this is ok as long as you are gentle, allow it to move around till you see air escape. Then leave the horse alone for a day or so. He will be stressed but will come out of it no problem
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
IF you need to do a manual evac, gently grab the horse in your left hand, let him hitch on your pinky, gently hold the body with your index. THEn gently roll your thumb and spare finger up his pouch. If this doesnt work. Then sterilize the end of a bobby pin (blunt end all women have these) and once it cools repeat same procedure and gently tease the openning with the bobby pin, the pin may slide inside, this is ok as long as you are gentle, allow it to move around till you see air escape. Then leave the horse alone for a day or so. He will be stressed but will come out of it no problem
I've heard of doing such an evac...I will see how he's doing tomorrow. I just did a small water change in their tank and I replaced the clip on fan. We'll see. He seems to be comfortable now on his captain's wheel.
Thanks a LOT guys!!
Lisa
IF you need to do a manual evac, gently grab the horse in your left hand, let him hitch on your pinky, gently hold the body with your index. THEn gently roll your thumb and spare finger up his pouch. If this doesnt work. Then sterilize the end of a bobby pin (blunt end all women have these) and once it cools repeat same procedure and gently tease the openning with the bobby pin, the pin may slide inside, this is ok as long as you are gentle, allow it to move around till you see air escape. Then leave the horse alone for a day or so. He will be stressed but will come out of it no problem
I've heard of doing such an evac...I will see how he's doing tomorrow. I just did a small water change in their tank and I replaced the clip on fan. We'll see. He seems to be comfortable now on his captain's wheel.
Thanks a LOT guys!!
Lisa
monalisa
Active Member
When I got home from work this evening, Apache has not gotten any better. I did indeed try to do a manual evacuation, but all that accomplished was to freak him out (and me too for that matter)...no success in getting the air out of his pouch.
What else can do for him??
Lisa
What else can do for him??
Lisa
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by zeke92
you sure it's not babies?
Very sure...he's having trouble swimming and ends up swimming upside down, but he's hitching fine and eating. His skin looks great and his breathing is normal, but his pouch is a little bloated causing bouyancy problems.
Again, he's hitched to his captain's wheel for the night. I'm not going to try another manual evac at this point...I don't want to stress him out too much. Tomorrow I will assess again, feed him as best I can (he is eating great), and possibly try again tomorrow after work...please send thoughts.
Lisa
you sure it's not babies?
Very sure...he's having trouble swimming and ends up swimming upside down, but he's hitching fine and eating. His skin looks great and his breathing is normal, but his pouch is a little bloated causing bouyancy problems.
Again, he's hitched to his captain's wheel for the night. I'm not going to try another manual evac at this point...I don't want to stress him out too much. Tomorrow I will assess again, feed him as best I can (he is eating great), and possibly try again tomorrow after work...please send thoughts.
Lisa
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by mcbdz
Good Luck. Have you tried asking on the other seahorse place(
)? They may have more ideas. I have read something about lowering the SG to help with stress. And did you use the clove oil before you tried to evac. Maybe that would help?
Let use know how he's doing.
Yeah, I just posted a call for help there too. Apache doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable at this point except for the swimming problem, since he's eating fine and seems to be able to get around fine, but I want to find out what to do for him before it comes to that.
Lisa
Good Luck. Have you tried asking on the other seahorse place(
Let use know how he's doing.
Yeah, I just posted a call for help there too. Apache doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable at this point except for the swimming problem, since he's eating fine and seems to be able to get around fine, but I want to find out what to do for him before it comes to that.
Lisa
rykna
Active Member
Originally Posted by MonaLisa
Yeah, I just posted a call for help there too. Apache doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable at this point except for the swimming problem, since he's eating fine and seems to be able to get around fine, but I want to find out what to do for him before it comes to that.
Lisa
Apache will be in my prayers
Keep us updated.
Yeah, I just posted a call for help there too. Apache doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable at this point except for the swimming problem, since he's eating fine and seems to be able to get around fine, but I want to find out what to do for him before it comes to that.
Lisa
Apache will be in my prayers
darthtang aw
Active Member
The bobby pin may not slip right in, you may have to tease right at the pouch openning and apply a tiny bit of pressure to get the pouch to open and slide the pin in, I was hesitant the first time I tried and was afrais to hurt the horse, however I found out sometimes it needs some pressure behind it, get the pin in first, then roll the pouch, that may help.
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
The bobby pin may not slip right in, you may have to tease right at the pouch openning and apply a tiny bit of pressure to get the pouch to open and slide the pin in, I was hesitant the first time I tried and was afrais to hurt the horse, however I found out sometimes it needs some pressure behind it, get the pin in first, then roll the pouch, that may help.
This was actually my next step for this evening after work. BUT, as I was feeding him breakfast this morning, the air spontaneously evacuated, and Apache was waiting at his dish tonight for supper. At this point, he's swimming around perfectly normal.
Should I watch for a recurrence of this? Does recur often?
Thanks everyone for your help...it's VERY appreciated!!
Lisa
The bobby pin may not slip right in, you may have to tease right at the pouch openning and apply a tiny bit of pressure to get the pouch to open and slide the pin in, I was hesitant the first time I tried and was afrais to hurt the horse, however I found out sometimes it needs some pressure behind it, get the pin in first, then roll the pouch, that may help.
This was actually my next step for this evening after work. BUT, as I was feeding him breakfast this morning, the air spontaneously evacuated, and Apache was waiting at his dish tonight for supper. At this point, he's swimming around perfectly normal.
Should I watch for a recurrence of this? Does recur often?
Thanks everyone for your help...it's VERY appreciated!!
Lisa
reefreak29
Active Member
yes it could happen every so often , best case scenario rite there
oh by the way this is much more common in virgin seahorses
oh by the way this is much more common in virgin seahorses
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
yes it could happen every so often , best case scenario rite there
oh by the way this is much more common in virgin seahorses
Best case scenario is SO right. I can't believe I happen to be right there when it happened, and even then I couldn't believe that I'd seen what I just saw...I was mentally planning on how to do the evac the way Darth had described. I'm really glad I didn't have to though.
Virgin, huh? I've read on another board that kuda siblings will not mate. I'm relatively sure that he and Navajo are brother and sister. I bought them from a LFS in Madison, and they were bred locally there. Could it be because when they flirt, they expand their pouches and get into trouble that way? Even though there's a chance that he and Navajo are siblings, they seem to flirt with each other shamelessly, especially since Maya and Inca were added to their family.
Anyway, thanks a LOT for all the help. I'm so happy this episode turned out the way it did. I love my horses.
Lisa
yes it could happen every so often , best case scenario rite there
oh by the way this is much more common in virgin seahorses
Best case scenario is SO right. I can't believe I happen to be right there when it happened, and even then I couldn't believe that I'd seen what I just saw...I was mentally planning on how to do the evac the way Darth had described. I'm really glad I didn't have to though.
Virgin, huh? I've read on another board that kuda siblings will not mate. I'm relatively sure that he and Navajo are brother and sister. I bought them from a LFS in Madison, and they were bred locally there. Could it be because when they flirt, they expand their pouches and get into trouble that way? Even though there's a chance that he and Navajo are siblings, they seem to flirt with each other shamelessly, especially since Maya and Inca were added to their family.
Anyway, thanks a LOT for all the help. I'm so happy this episode turned out the way it did. I love my horses.
Lisa
monalisa
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rykna
Wonderful!!!! Next time maybe you should mix some gasx or pepto into the food
jk
I couldn't believe I was there to see the evacuation actually happen...I didn't believe it at first, and actually talked myself out of believing it. I formed a plan in my head on what to do to help Apache this evening. When I got home, Beth and Mike both said that he'd been swimming around normally when they looked at him. I went into their room, and he was waiting at the dish for supper. After supper, off he went like nothing ever happened. Yay!!
Sometimes thoughts are prayers do wonders, don't they?
Lisa
Wonderful!!!! Next time maybe you should mix some gasx or pepto into the food
I couldn't believe I was there to see the evacuation actually happen...I didn't believe it at first, and actually talked myself out of believing it. I formed a plan in my head on what to do to help Apache this evening. When I got home, Beth and Mike both said that he'd been swimming around normally when they looked at him. I went into their room, and he was waiting at the dish for supper. After supper, off he went like nothing ever happened. Yay!!
Sometimes thoughts are prayers do wonders, don't they?
Lisa
rykna
Active Member
Originally Posted by MonaLisa
Best case scenario is SO right. I can't believe I happen to be right there when it happened, and even then I couldn't believe that I'd seen what I just saw...I was mentally planning on how to do the evac the way Darth had described. I'm really glad I didn't have to though.
Virgin, huh? I've read on another board that kuda siblings will not mate. I'm relatively sure that he and Navajo are brother and sister. I bought them from a LFS in Madison, and they were bred locally there. Could it be because when they flirt, they expand their pouches and get into trouble that way? Even though there's a chance that he and Navajo are siblings, they seem to flirt with each other shamelessly, especially since Maya and Inca were added to their family.
Anyway, thanks a LOT for all the help. I'm so happy this episode turned out the way it did. I love my horses.
Lisa
AMEN!!
Best case scenario is SO right. I can't believe I happen to be right there when it happened, and even then I couldn't believe that I'd seen what I just saw...I was mentally planning on how to do the evac the way Darth had described. I'm really glad I didn't have to though.
Virgin, huh? I've read on another board that kuda siblings will not mate. I'm relatively sure that he and Navajo are brother and sister. I bought them from a LFS in Madison, and they were bred locally there. Could it be because when they flirt, they expand their pouches and get into trouble that way? Even though there's a chance that he and Navajo are siblings, they seem to flirt with each other shamelessly, especially since Maya and Inca were added to their family.
Anyway, thanks a LOT for all the help. I'm so happy this episode turned out the way it did. I love my horses.
Lisa
AMEN!!