Bad Advice From Fish Store?

i am batman

i am batman

New Member
I've been "attempting" to cycle my 12g nano for the last 3 weeks or so. I buy Catalina Water from a local tropical fish store. If you're not familiar with the water, it is pumped from the ocean and has the whole R.O. process and filtration done at a plant so you get nothing but nature, pure, ph balanced, clean ocean water. We have been cycling the tank with about 25lbs and about 10lbs of live sand. Each of the 3 times we have done a water exchange I have taken a water sample to the fish store for tests. I take them to the store because I would rather have a professional tell me everything is fine than run the risk of screwing something up. Anyhow, after 3 weeks of cycling I would assume that there would have been an ammonia spike or a nitrate spike or something, but none have prevailed. According to the store, the tank is "doing nothing" biologically because there is no source for ammonia in the tank. Since I want my tank to begin cycling, the fish guy said put in a damsel and wait another week to see if we have a spike. I thought it was odd since we have been doing everything according to books and resources online to being the nitrogen cycle and have had nothing happen in the tank.
So in conclusion, am I naive in taking his advice, or does it sound fair?
Thanks
 
emtguy

emtguy

Member
Dont put a fish in there at all, if you wana start a cycle go get a shrimp from the grocery store and cut off a peice then drop in tank and let set for id say 1 to two days then take it out...take a reading of ammonia on 2nd day and you should see a spike.
 
C

capschamp

Guest
this is similar to how i started my tank. i used the catalina water, live rock in a 24 gallon. Tank was cycled (ammonia and nitrite spike, down to zero) within a week. So perhaps your tank has already cycled and as most lfs try to do, they are attempting to get you to purchase more stuff from them. Your best bet is to get your own test kit. It is very hard to mess it up.
 
canman

canman

Member
I had a similar problem in my 125. It would not spike it just stayed around 0 for trites and ammonia. My store suggested the damsel and it worked great. Two out of the Five damsels died during the spike but the others did fine. If you don't want the damsels just remove them after the spike and the water parameters come down.
 
A

alexmir

Guest
Why would you not just buy a raw shrimp from the grocery store and cycle it that way. Cycling with damsels is like saying " Lets put the dog in the garage with the door shut where the car has been running for 3 hours to see if theres wnouhg co2 in there to kill us"
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by I Am Batman
http:///forum/post/2590949
I've been "attempting" to cycle my 12g nano for the last 3 weeks or so. I buy Catalina Water from a local tropical fish store. If you're not familiar with the water, it is pumped from the ocean and has the whole R.O. process and filtration done at a plant so you get nothing but nature, pure, ph balanced, clean ocean water. We have been cycling the tank with about 25lbs and about 10lbs of live sand. Each of the 3 times we have done a water exchange I have taken a water sample to the fish store for tests. I take them to the store because I would rather have a professional tell me everything is fine than run the risk of screwing something up. Anyhow, after 3 weeks of cycling I would assume that there would have been an ammonia spike or a nitrate spike or something, but none have prevailed. According to the store, the tank is "doing nothing" biologically because there is no source for ammonia in the tank. Since I want my tank to begin cycling, the fish guy said put in a damsel and wait another week to see if we have a spike. I thought it was odd since we have been doing everything according to books and resources online to being the nitrogen cycle and have had nothing happen in the tank.
So in conclusion, am I naive in taking his advice, or does it sound fair?
Thanks

The store is absolutely right that there is no source for ammonia. Even if there was some curing of the liverock, your water changes are actually preventing the buildup of ammonia, which also prevents the growth of the beneficial bacteria.
As far as the advice given by your lfs, cycling with damsels is a tried and true method. It is sound advice but, as you can see from the reaction here, a lot of people have ethical issues with cycling with damsels. Irrespective of the moral judgment, the LFS gave you scientifically accurate advice.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2591305
The store is absolutely right that there is no source for ammonia. Even if there was some curing of the liverock, your water changes are actually preventing the buildup of ammonia, which also prevents the growth of the beneficial bacteria.
As far as the advice given by your lfs, cycling with damsels is a tried and true method. It is sound advice but, as you can see from the reaction here, a lot of people have ethical issues with cycling with damsels. Irrespective of the moral judgment, the LFS gave you scientifically accurate advice.
Aside from the ethical reasons for not using damsels to cycle a tank. Are damsels a fish you want to have in your tank? They are belligerent for the most part and very hard to catch and remove. If they are not part of your original stocking plain why include them
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2591313
Aside from the ethical reasons for not using damsels to cycle a tank. Are damsels a fish you want to have in your tank? They are belligerent for the most part and very hard to catch and remove. If they are not part of your original stocking plain why include them
^ Amen! Cruelity to animals issue aside, do you really want to have to tear apart your entire system in order to remove a fish that you put in there that you had no intention of stocking in the first place? Do some thread searching ~ I know of at least one thread were one of the issues with their tank is how to remove the damsels without tearing the tank down. Why, when you can simply use a dead $.02 shrimp? Easy in, easy out.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Instead of using a damsel such as a blue devil, which is very agressive, you could have used blue reef chromis. Also, if you don't mind spending the extra money, you could have gotten a clownfish to cycle your tank.
I always tell people to throw in a shrimp tail and wait for it to decay before adding a fish anyway. The spike can happen anywhere from a day to a week. Eventually you will end up with nitrate and your tank is cycled...
The main thing is to culture new bacteria in your system that can handle the bioload of your fish.
Your live fish store is right by saying that it will help cycle your tank. Many of us on here think that it is just a waste of life to use a fish to cyle your new aquarium.
Good luck with your new saltwater aquarium! Get addicted and have fun doing it!
 
saltymac

saltymac

Member
The store is correct, you need something to cause the cycle... if the curing of the rock didnt cause it, you wouldnt have seen it because you dont take the readings yourself. I used the fish method, none died and none cried. But you could just throw some food in there and let it do its magic. Good luck.
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Damsel bad idea...just cause they are cheap does not mean they don't have feelings. I have a domino, and he is awesome!!...anywho on to more important things in my mind.
If you're not familiar with the water, it is pumped from the ocean and has the whole R.O. process and filtration done at a plant so you get nothing but nature, pure, ph balanced, clean ocean water.
If you take ocean water...run it threw R.O. are you not getting regular water?...wouldn't the R.O. process take anything from the ocean out...don't know..to me it sounds like the bottled water company that claims it is from some glacier in Antartica, never seen by humans except the guy that personally bottled that water for you, so you can rationalize spending 5 dollars for water...when in fact it comes from some tap in Jersey.
been wrong before though...
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2591438
If you take ocean water...run it threw R.O. are you not getting regular water?...wouldn't the R.O. process take anything from the ocean out...don't know..to me it sounds like the bottled water company that claims it is from some glacier in Antartica, never seen by humans except the guy that personally bottled that water for you, so you can rationalize spending 5 dollars for water...when in fact it comes from some tap in Jersey.
been wrong before though...
Wow! Did you just burst my bubble on the quality of bottled water! Who'd have thunk something like that
 
nina&noah

nina&noah

Member
I used 5 green chromis for my cycle. I didn't know any better. 3 of the 5 are still alive today.
In retrospect, it seems like a waste of money to use fish. Use the shrimp, easier and cheaper.
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Wow! Did you just burst my bubble on the quality of bottled water! Who'd have thunk something like that
Well of course not your selected brand of bottled water...just all the others...carry on.
 
namas05

namas05

Member
Ya don't kill fish, or use a fish that you don't want to cycle a tank, I made that mistake before. Then you are stuck with a fish you don't want. And he will end up killing the fish you do want in your tank.
When you wake up in the morning pee in a cup, then dump that in your tank. That will start your cycle and not cost you a cent, except maybe the cost of the cup...lol
 
nina&noah

nina&noah

Member
Originally Posted by namas05 http:///forum/post/2591894
Ya don't kill fish, or use a fish that you don't want to cycle a tank, I made that mistake before. Then you are stuck with a fish you don't want. And he will end up killing the fish you do want in your tank.
When you wake up in the morning pee in a cup, then dump that in your tank. That will start your cycle and not cost you a cent, except maybe the cost of the cup...lol
Here we go again!!!!

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/313198/shrimp-vs-damsels-think-about-it
 
srgvigil

srgvigil

Member
I'm using the ghost feeding method to cycle my quarantine tank right now. I first put some pellets in about a week ago and put in a block of brine shrimp. Can't wait for it to finish cycling I want to put some more fish into my display tank!
 
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