Beth? Broomer?...

[sandy]

I was reading a previous post and have a question(s)
I'm going to take the media out of my Fluval tonight. High Nitrates are a constant problem for me. I have a 50 gal long with about 100lbs of LR and 3" of sand (adding 40 more seeded from activator package from ispf to a 4-6" over time).
I run a *&%*@ Skilter for now. I should keep the Fluval until I get a good protein skimmer, right? But get rid of the media in the Fluval? There are filter cartridges in the Skilter.
I currently rinse out the Fluval media in saltwater during my 10gal a week water change.
I *do* have a scooter blenny, sleeper goby and a chocolate chip star... so I'm wanting to put the activator package (worms, microhermits, ministars, pods) into my 20. It has 40lbs sand, 5lb of cured LR, Whisper Filter, Powerhead 201 and a heater. It is Not Cycled. Will the pods and worms be able to live in there?

 

[broomer5]

Hiya Sandy !
Sounds like you're planning to have this 20 gallon tank be a pod, worm and micro invert ranch, giving them a chance to possibly reproduce and populate this 40 lbs of sand without getting gobbled up by your fish.
Good idea as far as I see.
The un-cycled tank may cause a problem though.
If this small 5 lb chunk(s) or live rock had some die off - it's possible the tank had some ammonia present, and a small colony of bacteria are present.
If you just recently set up this 20 gallon tank - I can't say what will happen to the pods and micro inverts.
These guys will need a food source, flake food or something to consume, if you want them to live.
Adding them to a sterile tank - with no bacteria ( uncycled tank ) may cause problems.
Once you add some food - some will get eaten, but I'd imagine most will just sink down and decompose - creating some ammonia - setting the nitrogen cycle into place - and you'll have to wait for it to cycle.
I'm not sure how your detritvoirs will fare with ammonia present - not very well I'd imagine.
Hard to say for sure.
One thing I guess you could do would be to remove some more of the live rock from your display tank - and add several scoops of LIVE SAND from your display tank to this 20 gallon pod farm tank.
This would give it a jump start on the necessary bacteria - and if the tank does begin to generate some ammonia after feeding - you'd be in better shape.
Maybe I'm not understanding your goal here, and am way off base <img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />

 

[sandy]

You are right on target. Thanks for the response. What about using Cycle? The 5lb piece of rock seems to be VERY well cured if not kinda dead. Don't see any life on it at all.
Or, the kit does come with something called N-Reducer... would that possibly save the creatures? I know you are just gussing here. Better to have a well cycled incubator tank... alas the stuff is coming tomorrow.
I will take two pieces of my established tank and put it in the 20. How does that sound? All the better to put back in my show tank in a few weeks well juiced with creatures.

 

[sandy]

Oh, and whaddya think about removing the media from the Fluval idea? I've got plenty of LR and sand... Those darn NitrAtes are a pain.

 

[broomer5]

I was not thrilled with the N-Reducer - just a little bag of bacteria water as far as I could see, but still better than nothing and adds some diversity I suppose. A lot of bacteria in a concentrated liquid.
This is probably one case where I would consider adding "Cycle" or some other bacteria in a bottle, although I'm usually against using this stuff in one's "main" display tank.
I don't see where a product like this would hurt.
If you have 100 lbs of live rock and 3" sandbed in this 50 gallon long, and this tank has "cycled" and you show zero ammonia and nitrites - I would not hesitate to remove the Fluval biomedia - especially with just your gobi and blenny in the tank.
This is my opinion only - and what I would do if it was MY tank.
Your choice of course
I would not remove the biomatrix cartridges in the Skilter yet ( or whatever they call them ).
Personally I would not remove too much filtration at once on any tank. Sort of let it simmer and settle before removing any other biomedia.
Test kits are the only way to know what's really happening in there.
I'm still wondering about the "feeding" of this 20 gallon tank. Not sure how to go about doing this -but again - test kits may help to let you know what's happening.
Good luck Sandy - let us know how this new farm tank works out.
And yes - high nitrates are a royal pain in the butt.

 

[sandy]

Actually, I only mentioned the pod preditors in my 50. I have:
2 Perc Clowns
1 Royal Gramma
1 Scooter Blenny
1 Sleeper Goby
1 Serpent Star, 1 Chocolate Chip Star, 1 Cleaner Shrimp, 3 Pepperment Shrimp, 7 Hermits, 10 Snails, 1 big tube worm, 1 Queen Conch

 

[beth]

You do need to get rid of all filter media or change out disposable media [not rinse] every wk. In the absence of filter media, the filters will only turn over water in your tank [good] and add some [2-3 gal] of water volume. Nitrates should start lowing once you don’t have the media and you build your DSB. Is your main tank going to be reef? If so, you’re not going to want to use filter media on an ongoing basis anyway, especially carbon.
Pods and worms survive shipping then cycle in reg tank, so they should make it thru a cycling tank. Are you going to make this 20gal a subsystem of the main tank?

 

[sandy]

Thanks. Getting rid of the media tonight. Good to hear my bugs will survive in the 20.
No, the 20 won't fit under my tank. I'll have a sump built as soon as I have the bucks. I will be letting the bugs and whatnot breed in the 20 and then transfer the sand (about 5 lbs a week?) to the main tank to increase the depth of my sand bed.
I put two more established pieces of rock from my show tank into the 20 just a few minutes ago. Now there is about 10lbs in there. Package won't come until tomorrow noon.
Hey whadda bout feeding the critters with sinking brine pellets? I do that with my hermits from time to time an I can keep watch and take out what is not eaten... say overnight.??

 

[sandy]

BTW... We have three decent LFS' in Tucson. The one I've been frequenting most often, says I'm putting too much emphasis on DSB. Said that had to have a Plenum for it to work. That is pretty contrary to what I've heard from many on the board and the links I've read.
Simply a point of interest. I'm still going with the DSB.. and better protein skimmer... then sump... then lighting... then corals... maybe when I win that Lexis... (I know, I know... protein skimmer shoulda been on the top of da list... learning).

 

[broomer5]

Hey Sandy
Just curious if you received your sandbed bug kit yet ?
If so ......... how'd it go ?

 

[njdiver]

Beth?
Just reading through this post, and saw the recomendation to take the media out of the fluval. I am running one now, and using carbon in it. Seems like this is a bad idea, but curious as to why?
Thanks
_Scott

 

[demosthenes]

Not Beth, but still can try to help. Carbon, UV Sterilizers, and most of the chemical means of filtration in our tanks are indiscriminate in their removal of certain compounds, etc, and will thus take the good with the bad. So, using Activated carbon 24/7, can possibly harm the reef, by ridding it of essential minerals and bacterias, along with the harmful compounds. Some agree with this, some disagree, but this is the only reason I've ever encountered for not using carbon, as for the veracity of this claim, I'm unsure, as I know of many with great reefs that use carbon, and vice versa.