Beth, emergency it's not just ick!

[mccanei]

I have been hypoing tank for 3 days ick seems to be going away, but this other disease is rapidly overtaking animals (EMperor angel and harlequin tusk). I thought maybe a fungus, but it seems too rapid and detrimental. My next best guess is brooklynella. Symptoms include rapid breathing, undulating surface of body, damaged fins, and white blotches. I know your thread says to treat with formalin, would Quick cure work? Can I treat entire tank?

 

[sac10918]

Does it look like the fish are peeling? Thats how my fish looked when they had brook. Hopefully Beth will come by soon and help you out. When I treated for brook, my fish were in QT but I gave them formailn dips or baths, I did not add it to the whole tank. The dip exposure to formalin should only be for like 45 minutes, so I wouldn't think that you would want to add it to the tank. Im sorry I cant be more of a help!

 

[beth]

Post your water readings, and the setup you have in the QT. The ich is very obvious in the pictures. What is your pH? What are using to measure salinity? How fast have you dropped salinity? Added any other med? Was your QT just set up?
This is not brooklynella.

 

[mccanei]

Originally Posted by Beth
Post your water readings, and the setup you have in the QT. The ich is very obvious in the pictures. What is your pH? What are using to measure salinity? How fast have you dropped salinity? Added any other med? Was your QT just set up?
This is not brooklynella.

The tank I am using is a mature tank which recently housed alot of LR. When I hypoed ( 3 or 4 water changes of 8 gallons for 37 gallon). Don't let the photo fool you alot of the spots are blotches not ick. yesterday my ph was low so i buffered. I use a hydrometer to measure salinity. The only med i added was pimafix because i suspected fungus.

 

[beth]

Are you using a swing arm hydrometer? If so these are terribly inaccurate, and your salinity may be way too low--dangerous too low. Stop adding pimfix. The splotches are due to environmental stress. Please post your readings, and let us know what you are using to measure salinity. What is your pH? Did you raise pH too quickly? What was the reading, and what is it now?
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...5&postcount=15

 

[mccanei]

Yeah I original thought was reaction to poor environment, but Now iam not too certain. My numbers are:
AM: 0
Ni: 0
Na: 0
PH: was 7.9 now 8.2
temp: 81
Now the fish are losing color in larger blotches, their skin surface, I guess scales surface, is bumpy and undulating, they are eratically twitching and shooting through the water... Does this still sound like environmental stress. Could the stress have been from both the 3" harlequin tusk and 4 "Emperor in a 37 gallon tank? If so should I move one?
Oh, and to answer your question, I was using a floating hydrometer... But just in case the saliininty was a little low I added more sea salt.

 

[beth]

mccanei, environmental stress can include stress from ich, or other diseases. How fast did you raise the pH?
Also, hyposalinity will not work unless the salinity is totally accurate. Raising the salt level could negate the hyposalinity. How did you raise the salt level?

 

[mccanei]

The problem has only gotten worse, breathing more rapid, and fish are becoming lethargic, more small bumps so I used my best judgement and treated for velvet with non-chelated copper. Cross your fingers!

 

[beth]

What brand did you use?

 

[mccanei]

I used Seachem Cupramine bufferer active copper. Additonally, I added an airstone and provided more refuge. The fish resposnded well at first. They were more active and there breathing seemed more normal, some spots began to go away. But 1 day after they look just as bad before I treated. What can expect the healing process to be like? I heard velvet has a similar life cycle to ick, but the meds don't affect the velvet in parasitic state, only in reproductive state. Well, for now the fish are alive and still eating so this is a good sign, I guess only diligent observation and time will tell the fate of my fish. I will keep you updated.
Thanks

 

[beth]

I suggest that you take out the airstone, and add a PH instead. Water movement is very important, especially when using copper. You will additionally need to get the Seachim copper test kit and maintain copper at .4ppt. Do half dose the first day, bring the copper to .2, then on 2nd day, bring the copper to .4 and maintain .4 for 3 wks. Make sure there is good circulation throughout the tank for the course of the treatment.

 

[mccanei]

I already have the power head running. Does the airstone have negative impact?
ON another note I am still trying to determine what stressed these relatively hardy fish. In your opinion could the environmental stress have been brought on by too small of a tank (37 gallon tall), having both fish ( harlequin tusk and emperor angel) in Quarantine at same time, or just the adaption to a new environment... From reading the threads it sounds like Emperor angels do not respond well to small quarantine tanks. If the stress of the two fish exisitng together is the reason should I partition the aquarium and quarantine each individually to relieve the stress? I am not confident that I have relieved the environmental stress. What do you think?

 

[mccanei]

I forgot to ask if copper treatment works as effectively during hyposalinity? Or should you rasie the salt level back up during copper treatment?

 

[beth]

The airstone is basically useless. Just be sure that there is good water movement throughout the tank. Any stress from any source can cause these white blotches. Disease, environment, aggression, etc.
Cooper will work under hypo, though there was not a need to use copper if hypo was done correctly. Hyposalinity will work quicker because it effects the parasite's ability to reproduce.

 

[mccanei]

I am treating with both copper and hypo. I usually only hypo with great success. The parasitic infection seemed to thrive under hypo, I checked my salinity and it read 1.008. I rasied to 1.009 and with copper it seems my fish are winning the battle... Oddly though, my emperor angel seems to breathing out of only one gill. Should I be concerned or is this common after parasitic infection? Also, I can't seem to remember does hypo work on velevet?

 

[beth]

I would be concerned about that. Is that fish eating?

 

[mccanei]

The fish is eating, and now breathing from both gills. Thank God!

 

[beth]

And the ich situation?

 

[mccanei]

The ick is nearly all gone except for a speck here or there, but progressively getting better.... A question about copper--I noticed my ammonia is sky high, off the charts but the fish are not affected. I have treated with daily 25% water changes and Prime ammonia remover, but the levels have not gone down. The fish are continuously improving under these conditions. What role has the addition of copper played in these readings? Is it a flase reading or has copper destroyed teh biofilter?

 

[beth]

Here is an example of the problems associated with using copper in an uncycled or not very cycled tank. Copper can only be used in well established QTs, and then with caution. Now, if you "remove" the copper with water changes, you are not maintaining appropriate copper levels, thus an treatment course that is less effective.