Beth - HELP

blownz281

Member
i have had a large puffer since 1998 he was a foot long when i forst bought him and has been doing great. a week or more ago i noticed he was having a hard time eating... his bottom tooth looked to long and he couldn't open his mouth enough. so i let a week go by until i was like i have to break it down so he can eat. so i put him in a bucket and used small sheers to cut a piece of his tooth off. its been five days now and he barely moves around. won't eat. acts spaced out. i noticed today all his fins are still intact and no rot. his one eye is glazed over like a dog gets when they are blind. its not cloudy like ick.
he has to be pretty old coming from the wild being full size,is he maybe just dieing off and me cutting his teeth he couldn't handle the stress since he is old. he has always chewed his teeth down all the other years..
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Is trimming puffer teeth a common practice? I'm sorry but I have never had a puffer. I know that they require shelled foods to keep their teeth trimmed down. I've heard of people filing puffer theeth, but not cutting them. How did that procedure go? How much did you cut and how are the teeth looking?
Handling the fish would be an open invitation for all kinds of problems, including a bacterial infefction. Do you have quarantine tank set up and cycled?
 

blownz281

Member
i had nothing small enough to file them down with.. so i cut them. i wouldn't think that would have made a baterial problem. since his teeth aren't flesh? water quailty is perfect. he was mad when i was trimming his tooth. but never did he puff up once. ever since then he hasn't been acting very well at all.... he is breathing kinda heavy.. he is still kinda aware i'm around the tank looking at him. the fact of him not moving around or eating are very bad signs... when i was a kid when i first started out with saltfish-some that got sick even when i treated them never lasted... medication is kinda posion to them anyhow.. so i have no clue what to do?? what it out and see if he comes back? he has no open sores,fins are in good shape...
 

blownz281

Member
Beth how do i know what type of medication to give him?? do you think its a bacterial infection. i have a eel in the tank- don't have a seperate tank to put the puffer in right now..
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Can you place him in a quarantine tank? Its not really good to medicate the display. If you have LR it will die. All inverts will die. Your biofilter will die off. Maracyn Two for SW fish is what I would use.
How much of the teeth did you cut? How did you do this procedure? Handle the fish?
 

blownz281

Member
i hope are generic pet stores carry that round here. i had him in a bucket holding him kinda in the water. waited till he opened his mouth and started to trim them down. 4 days has gone by is it too late to bother treating him?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
No skimmer, but lots of water movement with PHs. Do you have a QT setup and ready?
Remember, never remove a puffer from water.
How does he look?
 

blownz281

Member
yes i setup a tank for him with water from the main tank in it. he was pissed when i put him in the other tank. so he isn't giving up yet i guess. i got that medication you said. i still think he won't make it though. bacterial infections are hard even for the most advanced keeper to cure.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
All we can do is try. For future reference, try to make sure there are plenty of shlled foods for a puffer, even shelled foods that you can buy at the grocerty store, such as live clams and such. This should prevent any problems with teeth.
I'm going to go ahead and copy this over to the Aggressive forum, just in case someone over there, that knows more about puffers, has input. Original will remain here.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
A cut and paste...Puffer Dentistry by Kelly Jedlicki & Anthony Calfo...
With the help of Greg Bishop DVM, Kelly first began doing puffer dentistry using MS 222 (tricaine methanesulfonate) and a "Dremel" rotary tool, much like the instruments that dentists use on people. Their procedure was conducted as follows:
Make an anesthesia bath using MS-222 with enough aquarium water to obtain a concentration of 100 ppm. Note: to make this solution from a dry weight – 1 ppm equals 0.001 grams per liter. You can multiply the amount of bath water (in gallons) by 0.0038 [3.8 liters per gallon] to determine how many grams of MS-222 are needed here. Chemicals like MS-222 for aquatic husbandry may be obtained through your veterinarian or aquaculture supply companies like Argent Laboratories.
Place the Puffer in the bath for about 20-60 seconds to be anesthetized, then remove the puffer promptly to begin the dentistry. Use a stone cutting wheel blade (composite formed or diamond-tipped, like for cutting ceramic tile) to trim off the tip of the overgrown teeth. Then use a gentle grinding bit to file smooth the rough or uneven edges.
It may be necessary during the procedure to place the Puffer back into the MS-222 for additional durations of ten to thirty seconds if the fish begins to awaken, move, clench its jaws or bite you! You can trickle aquarium water on the gills (or through the towel cover) to make the surgery out of water a bit less stressful. The entire procedure should take less than a minute or two, though, with no harm to the fish.
Another option for piscine anesthesia is clove oil (Eugenol Usp: 4-Allyl-2-methoxyphenol). Dose and duration for this method, like other forms of anesthesia, is somewhat variable by weight of the animal and sensitivities by species and individual. A typical recommended dose, however, is 4 drops of clove oil per liter of water (about 15 drops per gallon) to make an anesthetic bath. NEVER dose clove oil directly in the aquarium! It is an effective anesthetic with short exposure, but works as an agent of euthanasia to fishes in extended baths. In a clove oil bath solution, fishes should respond within one minute typically. Weak or smaller fishes may require a lower dose (2 drops of clove oil per liter of water) for an extended period of time (up to five minutes) for anesthetic effect. Large or tolerant fishes may require a slightly stronger concentration. We do not recommend more than 5 drops of clove oil per liter of water to make this anesthetic, but you can add 5 ml of ethanol per liter bath water for improved results. Clove oil can be easily found at online pharmacies, laboratory supply houses, local drug and health food stores - often by the aforementioned trade name, Eugenol.
* Note: For small puffers, the use of a power tool may be awkward or too large. In such cases it may be acceptable to just use diagonal pliers (AKA "wire cutters") or cuticle clippers (Note: these are NOT the same as fingernail clippers… They are similar to miniature diagonal pliers) to snip off the tips of overgrown teeth quickly. Just avoid using such pliers on thick or large overgrown teeth.
Cutting/sawing (top) and grinding (bottom) Pufferfish teeth. Be sure to finish tooth edges cleanly to prevent rough edges or burrs from snaring food, nets, etc."
We strongly recommend having a second person on hand to help with the procedure. The need for assistance becomes quickly apparent for holding the specimen, prying apart the lips, using tools, and trickling water over the gills and body simultaneously at times.
Whichever anesthetic you choose, be sure to have a fresh bath bucket of clean aquarium water ready immediately after the procedure to allow for the aquatic patient to wake up slowly and without the risk of display inhabitants attacking their vulnerability. Place the puffer into the recovery vessel with a supporting hand under its abdomen to guide it into the water. The fish will generally resume swimming on its own within 90 seconds. You may want to add a dose of water conditioner with colloids to reduce the stress of handling. You could also add healthy dose of vitamins to the water to supplement the stressed fish.
Once alert and seemingly in full possession of its senses, return the fish back to the display, perhaps with the lights off for the rest of the day. Very soon afterwards, you will see the "patient" resume eating without difficulty and flashing a new "smile." While the fish dentistry is rather easy and effective, it would nonetheless be less stress on the keeper and the "patient" if such fishes were given a natural diet and habitat to reduce or eliminate the need for surgical action at all.
Best fishes to you !
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks, looks like good info, but unfortunately the little guy passed away.
 
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