Beth: Hypo Not Working?

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth,
Just checked my fish today in the QT and they have on spot of Ich each . The salinity is 1.009. What am i doing wrong? Should i stop the process and do some copper treatment?
Thanks for your time,
Tim.

 

[beth]

Has the spots disappeared and come back, or they are just still there? Remind me how long they have been in hypo?

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth thanks for reply,
No they did go an its the first time since being in there that they have come back. Cant remember date off hand but i think its in my sig.
Thanks,
Tim.

 

[timsedwards]

glass hydrometer

 

[beth]

Your signature says:
False Percula Clown and Royal Gramma (both in QT since 22/11/03 to receive OST)
To me this means, Nov 22, 2003, which is in the future. Tell me how many days the fish have been in QT under hyposalinity, and did the ich return since you have been using hypo?

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth,
Yes that is the British way of putting the date, Day/Month/Year.
Oops just realised that mistake, sorry dont know how that happend.
Well to cut a story short Ive decided I cannot perform Hypo successfully with my glass hydrometer. On advice of some experienced members on the board I have performed a freshwater dip. Seems successful so far but time will tell. Either way I could not really continute hypo.
Thanks for all your help anyway and I am looking into a refractometer.
Tim.

 

[beth]

FW dip will not cure ich! Who told you that here?? Let me at 'em! LOL
We can certainly work on the hypo using your glass hydrometer, if you want to continue. I'll need to know how long the fish have been in hypo, though.

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth,
LOL I am sure that that person would rather remain anonymous! But they are very well respected on this board and several members have told me that it has worked for them.
I would have continued with hypo had I had a refractometer, but I dont and I cannot get hold of one. The Clownfish and RG were in hypo since the 22nd I think. The RG has been in QT since the 13th of May. I also think I need to recycle my QT with complete RO/DI water, as you will remember I had an Ammonia problem and algae problem, I think it would be better to start again afresh, as that water is jsut tap water with conditioner (back in the days before RO.DI).
Thanks for your help though, the benefit of QT's still remain and when I have a bit of money to spare I will look to invest in a refractometer.
All the best,
Tim.

 

[timsedwards]

Terry,
Im sorry I dont want to argue here but i have to disagree with your opening statement. When else have i disregarded the 'best advice' for something easier? I ask that you retract that statement. And I also did try the hardest way first thank you.
Hyposalinity is not used anywhere in Great Britain to my knowledge and no where sells refractometers, how do you think they cure Ich? I clearly recognise that hyposalinity and refractometers is the best way to go ( i have recommended that to other people), but for me it is not. Maybe I have a poor quality glass hydrometer then, because it it could very easily be anywhere between 1.009-1.011. If it werent for Beth's and your advice I would not even have a QT, and I am glad I do. But please bare in mind that everywhere i go in England, no one else has a QT or refractometers, which tells me this; there are other ways.
Well i am sorry but on the other boards I have visited and members on this board (members who really know their stuff), the people who say FW dips dont work are in the minority. I have countless people who say it has worked for them.
I think what I am trying to say, and I dont want to fall out over this, but there is more than one way. I am recognising your way is best but not practicable for me.
I hope you understand my position,
Tim.

 

[beth]

It is near impossible for a FW dip to work, tim. Even if every parasite dropped off the fish, the water in the tank will still have the ich. You've been here long enough to know that.
Anyway, when you get done with the dips, we'll be here.
So, what to they do in England to cure ich?? Copper? I would suggest you go to copper then if you don't want to do the hypo. Additionally, you need to maintain the quality of your QT and not let ammonia develop. Water changes, cleanup tank, etc.

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth,
Thanks for your reply.
My feelings are this: The main tank has been fishless since 22nd May, i only ever saw one spot on the clown so it wasnt particularly on epidemic proportions yet, the RG has been in qt since 13th May, and I have a cleaner shrimp (for what its worth!) in the main tank.
After talking to some people, I feel that the odds are in my favour and this is the best thing. Hmmmmm I think it depends on what you mean by FW Dipping not working; of course it will not remove the ich in the water granted, but it will remove the parasite from the fish itself. I now have to hope it has gone from the display tank.
Another part reason is as you know, there was slight ammonia in the QT. I need to sort that out, I was thinking of starting again with a new cycle and RO/DI water, what do you think? I also think I had inadequate biological filters. Could you advise on that?
Yes they use copper here to cure Ich, im doing some reading on it, what are your thoughts on it?
I just want to re-itterate that I acknowledge that Hypo is the best method, and If I thought I could use it effectively and proficiently I would, but I feel that with the equipment I have (and short of spending $150 for refractometer), it simply isnt practicable. As you will may notice in other threads, I continue to recommend it to people with refractometers as the biological reasoning for it speaks for itself.
By the way, not to cause any arguments (!), but what are your thoughts on FW Dipping all new fish? Once no ich has been established in the tank, surely then by FW Dipping (which will remove Ich from the fish), none will be introduced?
Your thoughts would be appreciated, thanks for your time and help again,
Tim.

 

[lesleybird]

I got a flame angel a couple of weeks ago that brought ich with her. I did a fresh water dip for 10 minutes using 1 teaspoon of baking soda for a 5 quarts of fresh water to adjust the ph. At the end of the 10 minutes she still had the spots, so I held her in a shallow bowel in a net under water in my hand and took a wet cotton swab and gently wiped the spots off in the same direction of the scale growth. This worked and she was fine and happy until a week later when the other fish got ich. I am sure that she had released some swimmers in the tank before I treated her. Now I am on week three of treating with Kick-Ich. All the spots went away in week one, but because of the long life cycle I am going to treat the tank for a month. Lesley

 

[timsedwards]

Hi LesleyBird,
If I remember rightly, freshwater dip shouldnt be for long at all, its not too pleasant for the fish. I did mine for 4 mins, most recommend no longer than 2. Not sure about the cotton wool idea....
Remember you have to disgard the water you treated her in, otherwise youll just be putting them back into the tank.
As you have probably read, hypo is always preferable and shouls be recommended.
All the best,
Tim.

 

[jlem]

I guess that TerryB should tell people that his way is the best way so they will not under any circumstances go against his advice and take the advice of others.

 

[jlem]

The point I was making was that are people right off the bat supposed to know that terry knows best, which he in many cases does. It is to bad that the best advice is not given by everybody every time but to say that someone has a habit of following bad advice because terry's advice was not taken as gospel is pretty rude and arrogent at the least. Giving ones advice is great but ripping on someone because it was not your advice that was taken is wrong any direct and straight forward way you put it.

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Terry,
Apology accepted, no problem
Well i have had 4 fish since joining this board in december. I had two percs, one did die of Ich before i cured the rest of them with ich, the other is still with me now in my display tank. I have a Royal Gramma that has been in QT since 13th May or so, and a yellow tang which i lost 2 weeks ago (you might remember), and that was due to flatworm toxin.
I still feel its a little harsh to say i dont follow the best of your advice; I bought a QT and your advice and QT all my fish since acquiring it on your advice, which I recognise is a good idea. I dont know what you class as a large hydrometer? Mine is about 12" long is so. yes I did turn the pumps off, but i was not confident in reading it accurately enough. Its not my eyesight, which is fine, but i guess its not of the quality desired. I dont understand what you mean by clear tube filled with water?
Also, i wouldnt mind your opinion on what to do with the QT now. There is very large build up of Algae (cyano and hair), and you might remember i had an ammonia reading 0f .25 before a water change. It is 80% conditioned tap water, made before i had the RO/DI unit. So should i start afresh with RO/DI water and cycle again? Thoughts would be appreciated.
jwtrojan - yes i have a few friends on this board who have offered, but it will cost me $40 to ship it, on top of $69.99 and being a student who isnt working at the moment whilst my exams are on (!), i cant afford that. Maybe look at that after the summer.
Tim.

 

[beth]

$40 to ship a refract!!! That's hard to believe. The thing is 8" and weighs a few ounces. My son has a friend in Thailand and sends her small gifts from time to time via mail--nothing even approaching $40 for shipping! In fact, the price is 80cents an ounce.
Anyway, no hydrometer will work if you don't turn the pumps off so that you can take a reading. That is what I do when I use a glass hydrometer and it is pretty accuracte readings [matching my refract].
Bottom line is, to jump from hypo to FW dip just goes against everything we have tried to teach here about addressing ich. If you didn't want to do the hypo, there was always copper, which is also a viable treatment for ich.
Yes, you can do a major water change in the QT.
Also, while people can express their opinion, even if they are in error, this thread isn't going to turn in to something other than about discussion about fish disease....

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth thanks for the reply,
Im a little confused, was it going to turn into anything other than a thread about fish disease? I certainly wasnt going to, rest assured.
Im going to read up on copper for next time, I know too little about it to carry it out now, and plus my QT needs sorting first. Can you give me any good www links on it?
Well $40 was what a certain online company beginning with the initials M.D. quoted me. This company wont even ship dry goods to me, which annoys me sometimes because they get a lot of business from me! I think if it is sent to a friend, admittedly its about $20 i think. Maybe getting to the UK is expensive? Its very very cheap for me to send to america, about $10 will cover nearly anything. But then we dont have fedEx really, just a state mail system (Royal Mail).
When you say major water change, i was thinking complete change of water and re-cycle, what do you think?
Thanks for your kind assistance,
Tim.

 

[beth]

Yes, you can change out all the water. But this could just be accomplished by doing large water changes over the course of a few day, rather than draining [thus stress] your system.

 

[timsedwards]

Hi Beth,
Yes I thought of that when talking to another member, perhaps a 50% change and then 7 days later another 50% change is appropriate?
Thanks,
Tim.