Beth - regarding your response on Green X

[star fish1]

Before I read your response I was advised to use this product along with hyposalinity. I made a 4 gal water change, bringing my salinity down from 1.023 to 1.020 and added the recommended dose of Green X. In my case 50 drops,and removed my carbon.
At this point should I replace carbon to drain med and continue with hypo? And if so will this product damage my bacteria on bio wheel in the process.

 

[beth]

Just do water changes until you can dilute that mess out as much as possible. Hypo and copper are the only accepted and viable treatments for ick. Hypo is the better treatment for ick because it is effective wo the toxic effects that copper has.

 

[star fish1]

I did a 4 gal water change yesterday,and a 5 gal change today. this dropped my salinity from 1.023 to 1.020 yesterday and today to 1.017. Is this coming down to fast? Should I continue water changes at this rate or make adjustments? I called 2 lfs to be sure that I had a clear understanding of the hypo procedure and both said that swf could not survive in water w/salinity at 1.09. So am I understanding you correctly that I should drop salinity 8 more points? Also, I noticed that my coral beauty and yellow tang both seem to be developing cloudy eye. Will hypo help this too? The blue hipo is twitching alot and the maroon clown seems to be unaffected. It never showed any signs of ich. All fish are eating just not as much as before. Oh yeah, and the ich spots seem to have cleared up some. <img src="graemlins//confused2.gif" border="0" alt="[confused2]" />

 

[jdl/dayton]

I would say your being concervative on dropping the salinity. I would think several small changes over 48 hours till you get to that magic 1.09 number. The reason 1.09 is used is because at 1.08 the fish which are designed to live in the dehydrating conditions of saltwater can no longer keep up. Hyposalinity causes more water to enter the saltwater organism than what is normal. Lower it enough and parasites burst and inverts die. (hense no Hypo for reefs) Lower it too much and fish drown.
As for the cloudy eye. It is likely a secondary bacterial infection. Basically anytime you have a bad parasite outbreak you can count on bacteria to take advantage of the open wound. Treat with kanamyacin sulfate in a Q/T tank with the same Hypo of your display. (Saves on medication costs)
Kanamyacin Sulfate is the main ingredient in Spectragram and Kanacyn. Just check the label of whatever you buy and make sure this is the active ingredient.

 

[beth]

1.009. Do small incremental changes several times a day. Your fish will tell you if they are stress, but if you do small water changes throughout the day, the will be perfectly fine.
As usual, the folks at the LFS, know little about fish disease. Proceed without fear.

 

[seaguru]

O.K. I must correct the record here...
This is a quote from <a href="http://www.about.com:" target="_blank">www.about.com:</a>
Greenex by Aquatronics is a combination of malachite green and quinine hydrochloride, and has given us excellent results in a couple of days. We generally treat for a five to six day period, following the product dosage instructions. Greenex is invert (meaning crustacean) safe and does not weaken or kill your biological filter base. When we have used Greenex in our invert tank, with some live rock in it, it does not seem to harm the live rock. However, we have had reports from some people that malachite green may harm certain corals, so it may not be completely reef safe. If you decide to treat your main tank, the down side of Greenex is that it will turn any silicone, air tubes or anything that it touches blue, except the fish. Once again, using a QT is a good idea. It is suggested to remove any delicate inverts or corals from the tank and place them in a separate aquarium.
Ed I have followed alternative treatments for ich for many years and the use of quinine/quinicrine products is one of them that has gained some acceptance in the last 10 years, i.e. the intro/advent of the "Greenex" product. Aquatronics used to make a solely quinine based product prior to introducing Greenex.
My experience with Greenex has been good. I have used it with success in FO Fish Only setups many times and had no notable decline in my bio-filter. A few times I have used it with crabs in my system and they survived. CURRENTLY I NO LONGER USE ANY MEDS INCLUDING COPPER, GREENEX, FORMALIN, OR ANTIBIOTICS, unless it is absolutely necessary after a 1 month quarantine period using HYPOSALINITY only!
For all you out there that have corals/inverts who do not wish to put forth the time, expense, and effort perhaps greenex is a quick alternative, but is by no means the preferred treatment.
Star Fish1 I am not sure if you have lost any fish, if you have I doubt it was due to the Greenex... the parasite infestation was probably too far gone and along with bacterial infection the fish could not recover. Also note that hyposalinity needs to be done correctly to be effective. Note that it has no effect on parasites that are already on the fish, only on the part of the life cycle where they have dropped off to the bottom to reproduce into the free swimming stage. Hypo at SG:1.009 or a Salinity less than 16 ppt will not allow the free swimming stage to occur, thus the parasites that are/were already on your fish will still do their damage. I suggest you search this sight for "hyposalinity" and "quarantine" as you will find lots of very informative reading on these subjects. Futhermore, hypo is for fish only, (hence the recommended separate quarantine tank/system) inverts and live sand beds will not survive hypo conditions. Lastly, your Q system must have a active/cycled bio-filter and you must buffer the water to keep the pH up as lower salinity water does not maintain pH as well. Good luck, Joe.

 

[seaguru]

And just one last comment...
I have SUCCESSFULLY used Hyposalinity keeping my water at a SG of 1.009 for the last month on 9 fish in my homemade Q system: 3 interconnected rubbermaid 50g containers, with cycled bio-balls for bio-filter. I brought the SG down from 1.022 to 1.009 in about 4-5 days (then started my day count) and tested the pH often. I added Kent marine pH-buffer occasionally to insure the pH did not drop due to the lower salinity. I also purchased/used a refractometer to measure the SG. (I decided that $500+ worth of fish was worth doing it right)
My point in posting this info is to be witness to the fact that Hyposalinity does work... after one month my fish appear to be disease free. I did notice one fish scratch once or twice early on but has shown no symptoms of parasite irritation for weeks. The only other incident was a Kole tang that had what I determined to be a slight case of lymphocystis which has also cleared up. (None of the other fish seemed affected by the Kole's condition which helped narrow my diagnosis)
Note that I observed my fish closely whenever I could i.e. many times a day. (i.e. you must observe your fish, how else will you be able to determine if anything is wrong?) So sorry for the long post everyone but I had to get it out in favor of hyposalinity, IF and I mean IF you are willing to do it correctly! Again I highly recommend if you intend to try it to search this site for "hyposalinity" to learn all you can prior to trying it... Good luck, Joe.

 

[heavenly damsel]

Greenex may be safe for fish only, but it certainly is not safe to use in a reef system. I used one tenth the dose reccomended and killed two anemones within 30 minutes. Nothing else in the tank was hurt,but I am glad I didn't use the reccomended dose.
I use garlic once a week and have no signs of ich in my tanks. I have 3 yellow tangs in my reef tank for 3 months with no ich. I swear by garlic as a natural prevention method.
I started the garlic as a treatment after I lost the anemones, the fish cleared up within 2 days and no signs of ich since.