Beth: Seacure Copper treatment & Tank cycling

[leona]

we lost our hippo tang from ich last week. So we decided to set up our 29g tank as a QT. We followed the suggestions on the forum here. Since we did not have a refractometer to do Hyposalinity we decided to use Copper. The fish were a little stressed at first but seem to being doing fine now. We are testing daily (although the test strip is very hard to read we are using fast test kit with the Seacure copper treatment). We had to put our tank together without it being cycled. So we have been testing all levels. We filled our QT with 10 gallons of main tank water. We thought that it would help. Then filled the rest of the tank with rodi water.
Sunday we set the tank up. Levels were fine
Monday nitrites were .25 and ammonia was .50. Since the fish were stressed because of the move they didn't eat and all food went to bottom. Since there are no inverts to clean up we decided the rise in the nitrite was due to food.
Monday night we did a water change of 5 gallons.
It lowered all levels down .
Tues was fine as for levels.
Wednesday today levels are high again.
ammonia .50
nitrites .25
Trates are 20
PH is 8.2
Should I just continue doing water changes should I do larger water changes?
Ounce treatment for copper is complete we are planning to let the tank cycle. But we don't want to stress the fish out more.
Next question:
How long should we do copper treatment and has anyone used the Seacure Copper treatment?
I've called the company and LFS and it doesn't seem like anyone really knows.
First let me explain to up till now what we have done.
Sun: Day 1 We tested tank with Fast Test kit Copper there were no signs of copper.
7pm we treated the first dose of copper 26 drops for 26gallons of water.
Mon: Day 2: 7am- 12 hours later we tested and added 1/2 dose to tank. 13 drops.
7pm we tested again and level was at .10 so we think cause the color chart is very hard to read. We dosed a 1/2 dose of 13 drops.
Tues Day 3: 7am we tested we felt that it was still .10. But we decided to call company to ask them since directions are very fague.
7pm We didn't get many answers so we decided to watch our fish carfully and dose 1/2 again.
Wednesday Day4: 7am we tested and we felt it was at a theraputic level of .15 and didn't want to dose again.
My question now is.
Do we dose only as needed when level drops lower then .15 or do we continue to treat at 1/2 dose daily? Which day is considered day 1. Is it Day 1? Or Day 4 that we reached .15 of a theraputic level.
How long should we continue treatment for 14 days? Or 21?
How long should we leave main tank free of fish?
How long will it take for the ich in the main tank to die.
I have read and re-read the ich forum but still a little confused.
Thanks
Last questions:
How will we know when we should stop treatment immediately and add carbon in our filter. What are the signs of the fish NOT tolerating treatment. So far other then our Ocellaris clown being a little stressed all of our fish seem fine. They are eating and swimming around normal. Bob (clown) is staying at the top of the tank or at the bottom of the tank. But today he seems ok swimming normal and eating.
We have 6 fish in QT:
Ocellaris clown
Tomatoe clown
3 stripe damsel
yellow tail damsel
royal gramma (he's the reason why we decided to QT and treat he was covered with ich and scratching against rocks)
Cromis damsel.
thanks for your help
Leona

 

[leona]

I found my answer about what day should be day 1. We will count Wednesday (today) as day 1 of treatment since that is the day we got to theraputic level of .15
Leona

 

[beth]

Copper treatment in a tank where you are constantly having to do water changes just is wasting time. Unless you add copper as well to the change out water. Copper, too, will kill off whatever bacterial filter you had, would have developed, etc. Thus, you see the cycle problem you are having. In a newly set up tank, it is hopeless to try and use copper and keep your tank from cycling.
If it were me, I'd spend the $50 on a refractometer. You can begin hyposalinity using a glass hydrometer while waiting for the arrival of the refractometer. Lower the salinity to within the range, then when the refract arrives, go ahead and work towards precision.
I'm not familiar with the copper you are using, but I do know that the test kits and the copper must be compatible, or the test results will be inaccurate.

 

[leona]

i'm sorry i should of cleared myself a little more. when we do water changes we are adding the copper to the water change. 1drop per gallon of water. seacure copper treatment says to use fast test kit with it that is why we got it. At the time we did not know about the treatment you recommend it starts with a "c". But we said this would be the first and last time we use copper treatment.
So maybe we are not cycling just waste from fish?
Buying a refractometer is OUT of the question at this time. Money is very low. But I have been eyeing them on ---- anyone refractometer you would recommend?
Leona

 

[beth]

Clean up as much of the waste that hits the bottom of the tank. You can use a syphoning hose to do that. Refracts are not complicated. The ones I've seen on ---- are good. Make sure you get one that measures both salinity as well as specific gravity.

 

[leona]

Thanks.
But, Should we continue to do water changes to help the tank stop cycling until fish are treated then let it cycle completly?
Or it's a waste of time and let it be?
Leona

 

[beth]

As long as you have fish in that tank, then you have to try and keep it from cycling. Fish can not tolerate ammonia or nitrites. Thus, yes, continue with the water changes.