Beth, Terry please read !!!

krusk

krusk

Member
I came across the "ICH" thread on another forum, unfortunately I can not link to SWF (one of my thread gotten deleted because of link it to another forum :) )
Hmmm. I do believe the Ich is in every reef tank, sometimes dormant for years. This comes from an experience with a veteran reefer that is a friend of mine. His 300g had been established for about nine years (give or take). He had not added anything to the tank (livestock wise) for years. Out of nowhere he had an outbreak of ICH. You CANNOT say this is (every reef tank has a potential Ich problem) a false statement. You don't know that. All that is out there on this is pure theory. Yes, it is a parasite, but do you know or have you seen a study that determines how long it can stay dormant? No such study has been done. I also use to have the same belief as you, but I saw it with my own eyes. I believe, in this hobby especially, one needs to keep an open mind. Express your opinions (that is how we learn) but don't make statements that are not factual. For example, I respect your opinion that all reef tanks don't have ICH. But that's all it is, an opinion. But I would never outright say that is a false statement because like you, I really don't know
I do believe that "ICH is not in every system" is NOT a pure theory. It is a scientific data in the lab proven by Dr Noga.
can you please give me your input?
thanks
Krusk
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I notice that the writer says that his friend did not add any "livestock" in years but the fish still got ich, thus, he presumes that ich can lay dormant for yrs. Well, did he add any LR or sand from another tank, etc? Ich can come on anything really, though it is only a disease process for fish. I would say that if this guy's friend actually did not add anything to his tank [absolutely nothing] for several yrs, or even several months, that it would be safe to say that the tank was free of ich. Ich has a life cycle of just under a month, not several yrs. In the absense of an energy source, just like all of us, ich will die out.
 
krusk

krusk

Member
Beth
I agreed with you.
I don't think that this guy will turn his believed around base on what we have said. He may change his believe if we can show him the scientific data collected from the lab or some fact .
Are there any publications?
thanks
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Well, who is he anyway? Is there any reason that we should be concerned about what he "believes"?
I'd suggest that you let us know where to find him, perhaps Terry would like to speak to him about his theories.
 
john f

john f

Member
What we need is this:
Find someone with a tank that fits the following criteria:
1. Has had a cryptocaryon outbreak in the past.
2. Fish got better on their own.
3. Has not experienced more outbreaks or seen any spots in at least 1 year.
4. Has not added any livestock at all during this time.
This includes inverts, coral, sand,ect.
5. Does not transfer any water or eqipment from any other tanks into this tank.
Then we just need to convince him to let us do a skin and gill scraping on one of the healthy fish.
Then we would know if cryptocaryon is on the fish still or not.
Problems with this are:
1. We are VERY unlikely to find such a tank anywhere.
2. If the scrapings come back clean it still does not prove all the fish in the tank are ****** free.
My opinion is that subclinical infections can persist for a long time, much longer than a few months.
Now, 9 years I find very difficult to believe.
I don't think I have ever known a reefer to keep a tank that long without ANY additions, either inverts or fish.
But I am not ready to simply dismiss the possibility of subclinical infections persisting for 9 years.
John
 
krusk

krusk

Member
Beth
You are right. Why should he worry about his believe?
I have found this book recommeded by Terry B
"Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treatment by Dr. Edward J Noga"
It will soon be in my book shelf :)
thanks
 
clarkiiboi

clarkiiboi

Active Member
Hats off to you Terry and Krusk, the only 2 who made any sense there. By the way terry there is a new post by that person to you. :) I just looked again and seems to be a time difference, so maybe not, you may have seen it, sorry bout that.
 
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