Beth..what does high voltage do?

[92protruck]

Beth, as you recall I lost all but one fish in QT for ich. The ich started 3 or 4 days after I added new lights but everyone said new lights could not be related (although I have always believed otherwise since I had not added anything to the tank in 4 months and the first fish to show ich was an "appropriatley QT'd" Kole). I have nearly accepted your theory that some fish must have slipped by with ich for 4 months and I didn't notice it until I added new lights and then all of the other fish got it (difficult to accept as I am 3 feet from the tank 16 hours a day and there were only 5 fish that were always front and center). Now, the surviving 6 line wrasse did great in QT for 2 months. The display empty of fish for 2 months. As soon as I returned the 6 line he started acting very strange, darting back and forth, quivering violently, biting the top of the water, going up and down very fast in the corner of the tank and developed 3 whit spots which I don't think can be ich (since the ich has to be dead). This reminded me that when I added the new lights the other fish started acting weird and I thought it was just an acclimation thing. The bi-color blenny disappeared into another hole and stopped eating and developed white patches behind his gills. The Kole tang would never settle down at lights out and became skidish. The clowns acted skidish. Water always tested good no chemical contaminates etc. So, a couple weeks ago I checked voltage....50 volts and the new lights are contributing 20 volts. I first tried to eliminate the voltage but was not successful (new pump and MJ's put out the same voltage as the old ones). After trying all kinds of things like new grounded outlets, new gfi's, etc. I added a ground probe 3 or 4 days ago. The voltage went to 0 and the fish is acting normal again. (I am well aware of the grounding probe debate and disagree with the "bird on the wire" analogy that the people opposed to grounding probes argue- it is not the same). All that being said, I think the additional 20 volts from the new lights pushed the limit in my tank and caused the illness. I can't believe the ich outbreak was coincidental. Do you know of any symptoms of high voltage that resemble ich? Bubbles on the skin maybe? Is there some known response with the mucus layer or something that I could have confused for ich? Do you think the added stress of the voltage caused the ich outbreak to spread among the others? Do you have experiance with voltage causing illness or read about the symptoms other than behavioral?

 

[beth]

This is a good example of what is believed to be stray voltage...or even worse, a short in your tank lighting/equipment. I am by far no expert in such things, but have seen and heard countless instances of the symptoms you describe. Typically, stray voltage effects tangs and angels [most] and the results are skittish, uncomfortable fish that ends up getting HLLE or even dying.
By chance is your tank grounded? Is it connected to a GFI? Do you have grounding probes installed in tank, in sump, in fudge?
On the other side of the coin, I have read articles by Steve Pro that seems to disclaim the stray voltage theory. You can get a voltage tester and test what is running thru your tank. There have been topics on this here if you want to do a search.
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...=stray+voltage
http://www.netpets.org/fish/referenc...grounding.html
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...ingProbes.html
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...alDetails.html
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7248
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13683

 

[mavgi]

Originally Posted by Beth
This is a good example of what is believed to be stray voltage...or even worse, a short in your tank lighting/equipment. I am by far no expert in such things, but have seen and heard countless instances of the symptoms you describe. Typically, stray voltage effects tangs and angels [most] and the results are skittish, uncomfortable fish that ends up getting HLLE or even dying.
By chance is your tank grounded? Is it connected to a GFI? Do you have grounding probes installed in tank, in sump, in fudge?
On the other side of the coin, I have read articles by Steve Pro that seems to disclaim the stray voltage theory. You can get a voltage tester and test what is running thru your tank. There have been topics on this here if you want to do a search.
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...=stray+voltage
http://www.netpets.org/fish/referenc...grounding.html
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...ingProbes.html
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...alDetails.html
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7248
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13683

beth i think it will be good idea to post it in the top faq under the link of :Equipment & DIY

 

[beth]

I was actually thinking that as well.

 

[mavgi]

beht i want to ask you question i know it's not the place to post it bat i saw that you are in this link.
i saw your 72 bow and you write there :All Natural Filtration using Deep Sand Bed, Live Rock and reef detritivores.
can you tell what type of filteration you have in this tank.
i am add one more 90 gallon tank and i don't want to use with the overflow becuase the risk of leaking .
can you suggest from your experience what will be the best option.
thank you
michael

 

[beth]

Much to my sadness, I had to give up my reef tank when I moved to another city for work purposes. It was quite dear to my heart, which is why I still have the website up.
The filters were: HOB Skimmer, several maxijets and 2 SEIOs, LR, 6" LS-DSB, all the reef sand infauna that I could collect primary being a couple of fighting conchs, nassarius snails and a colony of spaghetti worms that went from a few to thousands. No hermits or any crabs for that matter. I kept a couple of trochus snails. Never overloaded with snails, but, imo, snails are well worth their keep! I encouraged the growth of LR fauna including thousands of bristleworms and brittlestars and copepods. I ensured that these creatures had no pretators in my tank. And, along those lines, I encouraged the proliferated of the filter feeders than came on the LR including sponge and mini tube worms [again making sure that these had no predators as they are great water cleaners].
The one thing [natural filter] that was in the future of that tank was setting up a refrugium which is certainly the ultimate in natural filters. I did culture macro algae in-tank [because I had not set up a fudge yet] cheato being primary here, but also Halimeda which is the sand making algae of reefs. Also, I encouraged the Sargassum that came naturally on the LR [until it died out due to competition with other macros I had added].

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by mavgi
can you suggest from your experience what will be the best option.
You really have to explore all the options and then decide what is best for you. I think most agree that natural filters can only enhance your tank. So, depending on how plumbing DIY you are [which I am not] would likely lead you to how to set up your system. I would say that you should plan on having a refugium and getting the best skimmer you can afford. For reefs, I would stay way from wet/dry, canisters, and mechanical filters in general.

 

[92protruck]

"By chance is your tank grounded? Is it connected to a GFI? Do you have grounding probes installed in tank, in sump, in fudge?"
"
from original post:
"After trying all kinds of things like new grounded outlets, new gfi's, etc. I added a ground probe 3 or 4 days ago."
"On the other side of the coin, I have read articles by Steve Pro that seems to disclaim the stray voltage theory. "
I can repeat the negative effects of stray voltage consistantly by removing and reinserting the grounding probe. I will have to disagree with Mr. Pro. The bird on the wire and/or its current not voltage theory does not apply to saltwater animals that have a lateral line organ in my experiance. Birds don't have the organ and are not effected by RF or EMF (which is what I am experiancing-not an electrical short). My question was more along the line of whether or not you have seen fish get bubbles on the skin or anything that resembles brook or ich as a result of voltage? There are obvious behavorial changes just wondering what evidence was out there of other symptoms.

 

[beth]

I have seen fish get HLLE and exhibit the behaviors you describe for no apparent reason [agitation, skittishness, darting around]. Any disease a fish has, such as ich, can only be exacerbated by a stress [such a stray voltage], however, ich and brook are parasites and are not created by stress. Stress does not cause ich, but ich can be exacerbated by stress [such as stray voltage].

 

[mavgi]

Originally Posted by Beth
You really have to explore all the options and then decide what is best for you. I think most agree that natural filters can only enhance your tank. So, depending on how plumbing DIY you are [which I am not] would likely lead you to how to set up your system. I would say that you should plan on having a refugium and getting the best skimmer you can afford. For reefs, I would stay way from wet/dry, canisters, and mechanical filters in general.

thank you i realy appreciate that , i always thought to go just with refuguim (i have already hang on one on my 46 bow).
i will need to decide on skimmer and then i match the refuge i have some in my mind like:
deltec , eroreef or mrc .
best regards
michael

 

[beth]

A refugium you put together yourself is a heck of a lot cheaper, and you'll get more bang for your buck. You can use a tank, or even a rubbermaid container! There is some info in the Archives.
Sorry ProT for hijacking your thread! But back on topic now.