Bio Balls Good or Bad?

johnnyfish

New Member
I a setting up an new 125 Gallon Tank. Going to have fish, inversts and maybe after awhile some soft corals. I have a wetdry filter I am going to use as a sump. Should I take out the bio balls or leave them in? I am going you lS, LR, fluidized bed filter and a protien skimmer. I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on whether I should also leave in the bio balls?
 

fshhub

Active Member
if you are stting it up, i would DEFINITELY remove them, or not put them in, use a dsb,and your lr, jsut use the wet dry as a sump for h2o and circulation, no bio balls at all, you could put a dsb in the sump, if you want, that is not a bad idea
 

turbojoe

Member
IMO......I would NOT use bio balls or a fluidised sand bed either.Quality live rock(aquacultered maybe?),protien skimming,pc and/or metal halide lighting,and good circulation are whats needed. Or.......use the ECOSYSTEM AQUARIUM method. Good Luck to you. <img src="graemlins//silly.gif" border="0" alt="[silly]" />
 

hellspawn2

Member
For a newbie like myself can someone explain why not to use the bio balls? Currently i have a 85g with 4.5 to 5.0 DSB with around 30lbs of lr and i am currently cycling the tank.
 

luke

Member
Bioballs are too good. They mineralize ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate without allowing for anarobic zones. There is so much air in a wetdry that there is no room for the anarobic bacteria to grow. Simplification: they are nitrate traps!
Anarobic bacteria turn nitrate into nitrogen gas in sort of a reverx prosecc of the on above. This means you will have zero trates along with trites and ammonia.
Live Rock allows for great arobic zones (just like the wetdry) but it also allows for anarobic zones to keep the trates down. Live sand is even better at it than live rock.
Luke
 
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deita

Guest
Hi all,
Please clarify for me as well if you don't mind. I have a 54gal corner bow , w/ overflow to my sump w/ wet/dry, and skimmer. I have bioballs in wet-dry. I never have ammonia or trites, but I can't seem to get my dam trates below 20. Any help appreciated. 75lbs L/R, 4in. live sand,em crab ,pep&cleaner shrimp,sm yel damsel, sm staw pseudochromis, and firegoby. Also brittle star and 5 red hermits, orange ball sponge& sm red chile coral. All fine except minor issue with sponge. Thanks <img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />
 
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dwf

Guest
Hi Deita, Remove the bioballs, you don't need them anymore... <img src="graemlins//urrr.gif" border="0" alt="[urrr]" />
 
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deita

Guest
hey DWF, Wont my trates go up if I remove bio balls. That would only leave skimmer, and glass wool in wetdry?
 

turbojoe

Member
IMO......Removing the BIO BALLS is correct.BUT,remove them in a SLOW fashion.IMO...I would remove approximately 1/3rd...then do the same in about 10 days......then again in 10 days. This will prevent any OVERLOADING on your BACTERIAL BASE associated with your LIVE ROCK.Also....keep a close check on your ammonia levels during this process.GOOD LUCK ! <img src="graemlins//eek.gif" border="0" alt="[eek]" />
 

wamp

Active Member
If it anit broke dont fix it. Bio-Balls have been sucessfully run on tanks for years. You will hear horror stories and even my own opinion says bio balls are bad for reef tanks but....... If you do regular water cahnges and your trates stay below 20 or so you should be fine.. Look at your tank. Does it look good? Are you corals growing? Are they healthy? Your tank will tell you the answers you need.. I am the coral whisperer...
 
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starfishjackedme

Guest
If you're looking for a case of Blue Balls, I can sell ya set real cheap homie.
 

turbojoe

Member
Nitrates at 20 ?....On a REEF aquarium?..With SPS and LPS???........hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........The current levels of NITRATES that is acceptable by the authors of the best REEF BOOKS is about 5 max.......and thats too high according too most...... <img src="graemlins//eek.gif" border="0" alt="[eek]" />
 

wamp

Active Member
Sorry to tell you joe, But there is no know limit of trates on corals. As a matter of fact their affect on corals is not exactly known.. An acceptable limit in some tests kits docs is as high as 40ppm. I do not think they should ever be that high in a reef tank but some species of corlas strive in this enviroment. Now another part of your reply.. What measurment are you using? ppm? example. Aquarium pharmaceuticals test kits say "A nitrate level of 40ppm or less is recommended for saltwater aquariums. Many aquarists prefer to keep nitrates levels as low as possible, espically when keeping invertabrates." I do not say that you should not worry about nitrates however a trace amount will probably be ok. I always have around 10-20 in my tank and that is with a de-nitrator on it. Nothing has died in my tank for over a year now. And i frag stonys and leathers every month. So, am I to assume that they will die soon because of my nitrates? All I am saying is.. Look at your tank.. It will tell you when attention is needed.. :)
 

daluminum

Member
What do you think about selling bio ball's?? I have a wet/dry full of 'em.. they have been running for about 4 years.. plus I have a 6-8" DSB and about 50lbs of LR in a 55...no WORKING skimmer.. and 2 small damsel's.. So I have way to much bio filter for the tank.. So I might as well sell the bio balls to someone who wants the bacteria to cycle their tank.. so whats your opinion on this?? is it worth it for someone to buy?? just curious.. haha. Im mainly trying to make money of the ball's instead of throwing them away.. :D
 
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starfishjackedme

Guest
I don't know what the hell you guys are doing, I never have ANY nitrate at all on any test. You are doing something wrong, not enough LR or lights or something. All I have is a protein skimmer - that's it.
 

luke

Member
starfishjackedme - I assume you have LR and probably LS. If this is so... you have an aarobic filter and anarobic filter on your hands. Bio load affects trates as does bacterial load and many other factors.
Although I agree that corals don't die in trates... (even clams need them to survive) I don't think it is smart to use that as a reason to ignore them. The corals don't die because of trates they die when the hair algea takes all the light and the valonia start pushing up against their tissues. Trates are a real problem. Especially above 30 or 40 ppm. Of course the corals will tell you a lot... but testing foreshadows futre problems as well as tells you current conditions.
Luke
 
Guys,
Some of you mentioned " Use the EcoSystem Aquarium methods." How come EcoSystem Filter includes bio-balls in the chamber BEFORE going into algaes' chamber. (Of course their food source) then AFTER they exit from Algae chamber and there is bio-balla chamber again! (What this purpose is for before going to the tank?
Anyone care to clarify why the need of bio ball on that chamber where water exit from algae chamber? (If y'all know what EcoSystem Aquarium Filter-brand with that Miracle Mud design is alike. They seem to use sponge as bio-media on Hang-On versions.)
 

broomer5

Active Member
Well ..... here's my take on bioballs.
As mentioned above - bioballs are VERY efficient at converting ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate, due to their design and placement in the system. Large surface areas typically allow for large nitrifying bacteria populations, and the abundance of oxygen present gives these aerobic microrganisms a great place to do their thing. They do indeed work - but again as stated many times by others, they provide little if ANY denitrification - thus IMO - using a wet/dry with bioballs as your only biofiltration "allows" nitrate to build up over time. Back to the old water changes to reduce these increasing nitrate levels.
Using a wet/dry with bioballs in conjunction with a DSB and LR does not seem to be the best route to go for following reason.
Once a saltwater reef or FO/FOWLR tank, upon completion of it's initial cycle, matures, and the number of fish/invert ammonia producers is held constant - will typically produce a "given" limited amount of ammonia waste. Obviously you want your live rock and deep sandbed to handle both the nitrification and denitrification of these nitrogen based waste compounds. By allowing your bioball wet/dry filter to still function in this scenerio, you in are in escence "robbing" the much needed ammonia / nitrite from the bacteria populations that live in and on your live rock, and the upper layers of your sandbed.
You only have so much of this waste in your system, and allowing the bioballs access to it, you may end up depriving the LR and DSB bacteria their primary food source. Where do you want the major concentration of bacteria? In and on your live rock and sandbed ... right. I don't think that will happen as well when you are also running your wet/dry/bioballs.
Lastly, I don't think it's necessary to point out that passing a given volume of tank water over a packed column of bioballs means that all ammonia and nitrite in that volume of water has been converted in one single pass, but I mention it anyway. I've seen wet/drys with several chambers of bioballs with other types of filtration media, be it foam, fiber, mud, skimmer... whatever ...sandwiched between the bioball chambers. I suppose one could say that as the water passes through the first chamber, some amount of the ammonia/nitrite is indeed converted by the bioballs. But in reality, in such a high flow area of the system, much of the nitrogen waste passes through. Contact time with the bacteria of the bioball chamber is not a "one shot" deal. It's continuous.
So ... if you have a wet/dry with bioballs on an existing mature system, with an established bioload of fish/inverts - and NO live rock or DSB - Keep the balls. You need'em.
If you are converting over to a FOWLR or reef tank - and have added a sufficient amount of live rock, and are in the process of establishing your DSB - you would be advised by many to slowly remove the bioballs over time as described above.
If you are at the initial stage of setting up a brand new tank - are going with LR & DSB as your primary biofiltration - AND - have a wet/dry trickle filter - most reefers would agree to not even use the bioballs from the onset. Just use the wet/dry as a sump for other uses.
This is by no means 'written in stone" though. Many reefers and hobbyists will use a combination of various biofiltration methods - and their reefs look beautiful.
It's very clear to me that there isn't just "one right way".
But if you want my opinion JohnnyFish, as long as you have enough live rock and an adequate deep live sandbed from the get go on your new 125 - lose the bioballs.
 

johnnyfish

New Member
Thanks for everyone's input. I am taking them out! Althought I do agree with the fact that there is more than one way to do a reef and nature over time has a way of self balancing. I looked at my LFS reef display which is very beautiful and they have a wetdry with bioballs, protien skimmer and calicum reactor. Anyway I think going without them will be the best way for a new tank. Thanks!
 

turbojoe

Member
IMO....the use of BIO BALLS in the Ecosystem Aquarium method is this......They are there for PARTICULATE MATTER catching...NOT BIOLOGICAL SURFACE area in any way. If you use a denser Particulate filter such as a foam pad for example.....these will clog faster...and also ther is a PUSH too get away from MECHANICAL filtering in a reef aquarium.IMO.....mechanical filtering has a DETRIMENTAL effect upon phytoplanktonic levels in the water.So...that Is why BIO BALLS are used in these systems....IMO.....www.ecosystemaquarium.com :)
 
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