Bio Balls Yes or No?!?

[dlehto]

Hello, I am new to swf, and currently have a cheap skilter/skimmer combo. I am looking into purchasing a skimmer and researching how to build some type of a sump/filter/fuge.
Should I use bio balls as part of the filtration? Can anyone enlighten me about this? I have read a lot, but heard conflicting advice, some say yes, some say no, they are a 'nitrate' factory.
The tank is already up and running for almost 3 months(i have plenty enough nitrates) 55gal, w/ 4 to 6inch DSB and about 60lb of LR. so do I need a fuge/bioballs to grow more bacteria to eat ammonia/nitrite ect
If I'm going to build/set up my own sump/filter over the next month or so, I'd sure like to do it right. Also is a 10 Gal tank big enought to use as a sump/fuge?
Thank you for your advise and insight!

 

[pontius]

yes or no.
I took all mine out, as I have 140 pounds of live rock, and I threw some rock and sand in the refugium chamber. my nitrates were up, and several people will tell you that the bioballs will cause higher nitrates. Thomas will swear that this is not true, but my nitrates DID go down a little when all the bioballs were removed.
If you don't have as much rock, the bioballs are a good replacement.
If you remove them, you must do it gradually, not all at once. if you do it all at once, your tank will likely crash.

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by Pontius
Thomas will swear that this is not true, but my nitrates DID go down a little when all the bioballs were removed.
Your opinion is respected.
I bet that they did go down, because you went with a more natural type of filtration, and, I would guess that you simply removed something that was trapping ditritus. Any and I mean ANY type of mechanical filteration can trap ditritus and can ultimatly be the cause of the Nitrate build up. Even not cleaning the filter floss could be a cause of nitrates.
Please, please, never blame it on those little innocent plastic balls, beacuse it just isn't true.
Its true that they breakdown the ammonia and nitrites, and the result of those breakdowns is nitrates, but they don't cause the nitrates. Everyone has to have a way to deal with nitrate export no matter what form of filtration you have.
My point would be that as long as you maintain properly ANY type of mechanical filter then you can also control the nitrate problem, along with the proper water changes, and other types of filtration.
I even got rid of my bio balls, but this was because I added a 55 gallon refugium with DSB and macro algae, this rendered my bio balls obsolete and the idea was to feed the nutrients to the DSB so that it functions properly.
Its a matter of choice.
dlehto - All you ever wanted to know about bio balls can be done with a search on this board. Just use the words bio balls and then put my name Thomas712 in there, you will find pages and pages of information.
I just need to learn not to reply to anymore bio ball posts. Why do I always route for the underdog?
Thomas

 

[big boy69]

Use golf ball size pieces of live rock.

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by big Boy69
Use golf ball size pieces of live rock.
And how is that better than bio balls?
Are they submerged or is the water trickling over them?

 

[ophiura]

Originally posted by Thomas712
I just need to learn not to reply to anymore bio ball posts. Why do I always route for the underdog?
Thomas
I hear you my friend!! I'm trying hard to resist writing too - and you've already said what I wanted! I'll definitely back the "search" idea. I think there was a thread on this just the other week...and probably more than that!

 

[crm13]

I have to admit, I really never understood how having bioballs, or some equivalent media, could be a so called "nitrate factory." I'm thinking that the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate production and processing in a tank will happen at a pace set by your bioload (doc's, wastes, food, etc....) Whether the bacteria colonize on your bioballs, or whether they colonize on your live rock, the same bacteria would do it's job at the same pace. If you are effectively producing nitrites at a certain rate, the two conditions following would either be to process them into nitrates at a corresponding rate or to fall behind, causing a spike in your nitrites. How could having more surface area for bacterial colonization cause a higher reading of nitrates over a given period of time if the same amount of ammonia is produced regardless of how much colonization exists? Then it's a matter of whether to lower nitrates by water changes, or denitrification. Having live rock, and lots of it, will definitely help in denitrification and can definitely help to lower your nitrates naturally whereas you don't have that benefit with bioballs. But, I still don't get how nitrates are being processed at some unmanageable rate. I think that if you have enough live rock, you can eliminate the need for bioballs, but I don't think having them could hurt you. You just have to clean them from time to time to prevent the buildup of detritus, for the same reason you would blow the detritus off your live rock from time to time. So, then it just comes down to whether you have enough live rock to eliminate the bioballs, so that you don't have the extra media to keep clean, or not. If you don't mind cleaning them from time to time at all, then having them can't be a bad thing. :nervous: Whew!!! I guess I just had to openly try and reason it out because I kinda wondered myself.

 

[fishcake]

I Use bioballs in my refuge to break up bubbles in the first chamber on left side.I am at 0 nitrates because I manage export !
So i agree with Thomas. THey aren't in this pic because it's an older pic

 

[say]

Ok... One says yes... one says now.. I'm confused again... I am getting ready to set up my 150g tank and I have a wet/dry filter with bioballs... Before I put in my live rock, do I need to use the bioballs and slowly remove them once I get all my rock in? or do I need to leave them as long as I watch my nitrates?

 

[thomas712]

Here is a post from broomer5 (no longer in the hobby) that I thought was pretty fair and reasonalble, dedpending on what other form of filtration and means of export you have. I still say that I never had a problem with bio balls with a reef tank, because I was willing to do the maintanence on them.
Originally posted by broomer5
In a fish only tank with no live rock and shallow substrate - I would use a wet/dry with bioball media.
In an aggressive tank without much live rock, and a lot of messy meat eaters - I would consider using a wet/dry with bioballs.
In a FOWLR tank - if you have enough rock/sand .. I would not use bioballs.
If a reef tank with rock, deep sandbed and either an algae fuge, protein skimmer or both - no way would I see a need for the wet/dry/bioballs.
It all depends on the individual set up, what animals you keep in the tank, and your own preference on filtration.
The bioballs are not really good or bad - they simply house a lot of aerobic bacteria film - that are very effective at converting ammoina to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate. They don't have the ability to house many anaerobic bacteria colonies - so you won't have much denitrification occuring. Way too much O2 for this to happen.
Deep sandbeds, and to a degree live rock ... will allow for some degree of denitrication to occur. That's why I like rock and sandbeds.
Far less maintenance - and it looks good.

 

[snipe]

I was turned around awhile back about the bioballs. And if I could afford it I would set up a sump in a heart beat. But I have around 100lbs of rock and a DSB with a hang on skimmer so I dnot really need one. I am working on a fuge "after my lights" so I can get a manderin "Beutiful fish"

 

[blemmy_guy]

I use bio balls, and have never had a problem at all. tank always looks good as far as water parameters go. I personally think there great. todd

 

[snipe]

As far as having one or not. I tested all my params today "except iron" and every thing perfect!
Amonia 0
Nitrate was like 1
Nitrite was 0
Phostphates were 0
Calcium 460 "but It may be 450 cause my thing sais multiply by 20 and to get 450 exactly you would have to add half a drop and you cant do that lol"
PH was 8.4
Salanity was 1.026
and my KH "hardness" was 110
I think I am doing pretty good so far "crossing my fingers lol"

 

[mudplayerx]

The confusion on whether or not to use bioballs stems from the mention of the bioballs themselves. Many experts disdain the use of wet/dry filters in the marine tank in general. The concensus among these experts is that there is no need for a wet/dry system if you combine a large live rock to water ratio and a deep sandbed.
Personally, I have to agree with these experts. Why add more unessesary equipment to the setup? John Tullock said, and I quote: "Natures complexity stems from its simplicity."
This is just my opinion.

 

[mikegray]

i just bought 4 boxes of 1.5" bioballs but i guess i wont use them. i was just gonna put them in my overflows so they arent so loud..and as a mini trickle filter as they go to the sumpfuge. but i dont think im going to use them now....

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
The confusion on whether or not to use bioballs stems from the mention of the bioballs themselves. Many experts disdain the use of wet/dry filters in the marine tank in general. The concensus among these experts is that there is no need for a wet/dry system if you combine a large live rock to water ratio and a deep sandbed.
Personally, I have to agree with these experts. Why add more unessesary equipment to the setup? John Tullock said, and I quote: "Natures complexity stems from its simplicity."
This is just my opinion.
And I will 2nd that. Well said. While the bioballs itself, technically does not cause nitrate, the use of bioballed wet/dry filtration does cause nitrate by default. The hobbyist will pay a good chunck of money for the wet/dry thinking it is the ultimate filtration system [and it should be for all the money that is laid out for it]. Unfortunately, the wet/dry turns out to only partically complete the nitrogen cycle. leaving nitrate, usually high nitrate, behind for the hobbyist to find some other way to fix the problem. So add Live rock. Well, live rock and live sand will do the complete job, and you don't need the wet-dry. Unless you have a FO tank, there really is no need for a wet/dry. And, knowing now that live rock is a better filter, why have a FO tank with an expensive wet/dry when you could have a FOWLR?? Well, maybe you need it for tanks with a lot of fish....that would be another arguement to debate.
Anyway, my humble .02cents.

 

[thomas712]

Originally Posted by MikeGray
i just bought 4 boxes of 1.5" bioballs but i guess i wont use them. i was just gonna put them in my overflows so they arent so loud..and as a mini trickle filter as they go to the sumpfuge. but i dont think im going to use them now....
Mike what type of overflows do you have, internal or external ?

 

[mikegray]

intenal built in. on both sides of my 125.

 

[thomas712]

Why are they so loud? Arn't you using the Durso style standpipe?

 

[mikegray]

no not durso.. i dont kno how to make it.. i looked on directions but i still dont understand how it works and all the parts.. not a plumber LOL......
i have the regular long piece of PVC with like holes drilled in for water..