Bubble Tip and Nitrates

[nolan_nike]

Would extremely high nitrates cause a BTA to want to stay in the shade and completely "lose" its tenacles? It hasn't been "right" for months. I recently discovered my nitrate test kit was bad. My nitrates are over 200 not the 20 I thought.
I've taken steps that should begin to bring nitrates down quickly, but was wondering if anybody else has subjected a BTA to out of control nitrates, and what the results were?

 

[nolan_nike]

His tentacles are starting to return. Some are up to a 1/4" most are just bumps. All are clear - no zooxanthellae maybe? Nitrates are now under 5ppm from 200+ppm. He can't hold food with his tentacles, but will eat if I put the krill on his mouth and keep the other fish from pulling the food from him. He still seems to be moving from the light. He goes to the underside of the rock he is on each day. I turn it over to the light and feed him at night.
He does seem to be improving.
Has anybody had experience with keeping an Anemone in extremely high nitrates?
I'm still not 100% sure the nitrates were the cause of his decline. I had also treated the tank with AZ-NO3, which led to an oxygen shortage that annoyed the anemone and killed the 2 clarkiis that had kept him well fed. I have read that high nitrates will cause the Zooxanthellae to multiply quickly which may cause the animal to expand quickly at first before it expells the Zoox and bleaches. How quickly might a BTA improve if he expelled his zooxanthellae before the nitrates went from 200 to 5 and he is now being kept in the light and fed?
Any ideas?
Thanks.

 

[thomas712]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier Nolan.
Well I did keep a BTA in a rather high nitrate tank at one time, I remember having nitrates at 100+. however everything I knew about anemones that long ago you could stick in a thimble, and honestly I just don't remember much about it.
If your nitrates were that bad then I have a few questions.
1. How long were they that bad?
2. How about your other test scores for say alkalinity, calcium, pH ave.?
3. Have you been doing any water changes with RO water?
I have read that high nitrates will cause the Zooxanthellae to multiply quickly which may cause the animal to expand quickly at first before it expells the Zoox and bleaches.
I have no idea but would like to know where you got that from.
How quickly might a BTA improve if he expelled his zooxanthellae before the nitrates went from 200 to 5 and he is now being kept in the light and fed?
About three months if you have the proper lighting, and feed him 2x per week. But mind you feeding is not as important as the lighting IMO.
I take it there is no skimmer on this tank?
What about your lighting, what is it and what size tank?
Thomas

 

[nolan_nike]

Thomas,
Much thanks for any help/opinion that you can give.
The article regarding high nitrates and Zooxanthellae growth was here. I'm pretty new at this so I'm hoping my understanding of the article was correct:
I know I asked for it but the link has to be deleted, posting to other websites and competor sites is not allowed, I should have made the clear first..
To answer some questions:
1. How long were they that bad?
I was aware that my nitrates were elevated for the past year. My test kit always showed a reading between 20-40ppm. I ignored all the other signs of a nitrate problem and trusted this test kit. While working to get nitrates lower - I added live rock, got a skimmer, added denitrate media to canister filters, removed filter pads, removed biomedia, tried AZ-NO3, removed UG filter, removed crushed coral, etc. Turns out the test kit was old and the nitrates have been climbing for the last year. When I finally got a new kit it read of the charts 200+ immediately with no development time needed.
2. How about your other test scores for say alkalinity, calcium, pH ave.?
Ammonia -0-
Nitrite -0-
KH 10
PH 8.1 to 8.3
salt 1.025
Nitrate is now approx 5ppm
I haven't tested for calcium
3. Have you been doing any water changes with RO water?
I use RO/DI for top offs. I never changed more than 3-5 gallons of water at a time for water changes. A guy at the LFS, that the other employees obviously respected, told me that he hadn't done a water change in 3 yrs. That water changes were mainly for nitrate removal, everybody tells you to do it but he wouldn't if nitrate readings were stable, just add supplements as needed.
My tank now:
120 gal 5' tank
150lb live rock
3" argonite reef sand
1 Fluval 404 (I've put back in the filter pads, biomedia, and purigen)
6 maxi-jet 1200's
1 prizm skimmer
1 Sulfur Denitrator
PC 384 watts total 2- 10,000K Daylight and 2- True Actinic 03 Blue
Stock:
1 Purple Tang
1 Blue Hippo Tang
2 Percula Clowns
1 Clarkii Clown
1 dragon goby
2 bar gobies
1 bicolor blenny
15 turbo grazers
15 other assorted snails
5 hermit crabs
1 coral banded shrimp
1 BTA
1 Derasa clam
1 Crocea clam
zoos
mushrooms
leather
You say feeding is not as important as light. I was concerned about feeding him because I suspected he expelled most of his zooxanthellae and did his best to stay out of the light.
I have been feeding him a piece or 2 of krill each day for the past 5 days. I haven't seen him expell the krill, and I've been turning the rock he is on to the light. I have to actually put the krill in his mouth because his tentacles had receeded to nothing over the past few months. Should I cut back on the feeding? He seems to be improving. Tentacles are starting to show 1/8" to 1/4" in length.
The tentacles are clear mostly, and his body is marbled between clear and what used to
be his old normal tanish color.
Now he doesn't seem to be running from the light quite as much.
Thanks,
Nolan

 

[thomas712]

When an anemone looses its zooxanthellae I can agree to feeding more often, say 2 or 3 times per week until its health comes back and it can tolerate things again. I would also mix up the food and give it other meaty treats like mysis shrimp or frozen plankton, give it a little variety. The zooxanthellae itself lives off of the photosynthesis, excess nutrients are then provided for the anemone by the zooxanthellae. Think about it anemones must get fed much more often in our aquariums than they do in the wild, but then many clown fish make sure the anemone has food as well. I do know there are a couple of anemones that I can reach in my tank, and I have never feed them directly in over 6 months and they are doing fine by light, and whatever they happen to catch.
Long time ago I had a 55 gallon, even used a UGF and had 3 inches of crushed coral. I have done from 50%- near 100% water changes to lower nitrates. Thing is that fish can build up some tolerance to the building nitrates, but at 200ppm you should have seen some lethargy and other symptoms in the fish. Oh well, sounds like you had to revamp the system and now you just have to test more often and watch your feeding habits as well as maintenance.
There is a thread where we had a discussion about force feeding an anemone, I might look that up for you and add it, seemed to work for Unleashed an active member here.
continue to feed 2 or 3 times per week for now until he starts to regain his color. As he gets better try bringing him more into the light.
Thomas
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/190570/proggress-of-dying-sebae

 

[nolan_nike]

Thomas,
Sorry about posting that link, I should have read the rules better.
This guy was definately thriving w/o my feeding for about the first 8 months. I have no doubt that I never would of had to feed him directly if I hadn't destroyed his environment. He got light and what the clowns gave him and was growing. He was probably up to about 10" in diameter from 4-6" and never moved from the first spot he chose. I'd say he is 2-3" in diameter now.
My goal is to get him back to his prior health so the light and clowns can take care of him.
The thread you provided with Unleashed will help. I've only been feeding krill because it was the only thing narrow enough that I could hold on to and felt okay sticking in it's mouth. I tried shooting liquid food on its body but it would just float away. I'll get some mysis or plankton and try "injecting" it like Unleashed. Sounds a lot easier and effective than starting a little piece of krill in its mouth and spending the next couple hours keeping the fish away with a stick while the anemone sloooowwwwwly pulls the food in.
I'll feed him every other day and see if he continues to improve or starts shrinking again. I'm hoping he has enough zooxanthellae in him to get energy.
In hindsight the symptoms of building nitrates were obvious. It was such a gradual process I didn't realize how bad things were getting. I'm going to start using quick dip strips at least once every couple of weeks to double check my test kits. Now that nitrates are under control it is amazing how active things are becoming. The Hippo Tang has HLLE. Instead of zeroing in on Nitrates being the cause, I thought it was his diet.
He also seems to be quickly recovering.
Thanks,
Nolan

 

[nolan_nike]

Originally Posted by Thomas712
continue to feed 2 or 3 times per week for now until he starts to regain his color. As he gets better try bringing him more into the light.

Should I quit turning his rock to the light? Instead of going to the bottom of it he has been moving to the side each day. He isn't facing the light directly but he isn't in the shadows either.
Thanks again,
Nolan

 

[thomas712]

You can let him take his own sweet time and see what he does
or
You can continue to turn him slightly into more light and see how he reacts.
The way I see it the Dinoflagellates have to make there way back into the anemone, this will take time and like anything else these zooxanthellae will need to rebuild thier colonies, and they will need light to help them out. Its like a white boy like me in Michigan's winter suddenly going to the bright Florida sun, I'd have to take it easy out in the open until my pigment grows and gets used to all that sunshine or else I'll get burned. Without the zooxanthellae he's lost his SPF block.
So if you choose turn that rock slightly into the light but not enough to make him say "wait a minute, I need to seek shelter!". Then he takes off for parts unknown to the back of your tank where it might make it much harder to care for him.
Just my thoughts on it.
Thomas