But government is so efficient (a look at the numbers)

[darthtang aw]

The average person in the U.s. racks up an averaged medical cost of about 8000 per year. This is what is spent per capita per person. Total cost, not just their portion.
The healthcare.gov website alone cost about 400 million. There were ten contracts awarded that total over one billion dollars in heathcare related dealings.
Why are we so stupid? Just give each person in the country a "healthcare number" (think social security number) and it has an allotted one million dollars to be used for only healthcare for their life. It would be cheaper.......................

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/396596/but-government-is-so-efficient-a-look-at-the-numbers#post_3533871
The average person in the U.s. racks up an averaged medical cost of about 8000 per year. This is what is spent per capita per person. Total cost, not just their portion.
The healthcare.gov website alone cost about 400 million. There were ten contracts awarded that total over one billion dollars in heathcare related dealings.
Why are we so stupid? Just give each person in the country a "healthcare number" (think social security number) and it has an allotted one million dollars to be used for only healthcare for their life. It would be cheaper.......................

Yes, a single payer healthcare system would be much more preferable to the Obomination Healthcare System.

 

[beaslbob]

I disagree.
to get costs down doctors and patients should have to deal with each other directly. Hopefully not through third parties. And most definatly through the politacols in Washington.

 

[darthtang aw]

I disagree.
to get costs down doctors and patients should have to deal with each other directly. Hopefully not through third parties. And most definatly through the politacols in Washington.
Pretty sure a gun shot victim doesn't have time to negotiate with his life saving surgeon at that moment..............

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/396596/but-government-is-so-efficient-a-look-at-the-numbers#post_3533879
Pretty sure a gun shot victim doesn't have time to negotiate with his life saving surgeon at that moment..............

And that is a billionth of a precent of the total health care expenses.
I feel the doctor and the patient can work even that out.
What we don't need is the government telling people what health insurance they must buy. and what treatments doctors are forced to provide.
And we most definatly do not need billion dollar programs to insure the successful have their success forceably taken from them and given to others. People can do that all on their own.
even for emergency situations.

 

[darthtang aw]

Quote:Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/396596/but-government-is-so-efficient-a-look-at-the-numbers#post_3533879
Pretty sure a gun shot victim doesn't have time to negotiate with his life saving surgeon at that moment..............

And that is a billionth of a precent of the total health care expenses.
I feel the doctor and the patient can work even that out.
What we don't need is the government telling people what health insurance they must buy. and what treatments doctors are forced to provide.
And we most definatly do not need billion dollar programs to insure the successful have their success forceably taken from them and given to others. People can do that all on their own.
even for emergency situations.
I don't disagree.....but the majority are against single payer system yet even that would be better than this clustercrap we currently have going.....That was my point.

 

[2quills]

The average person in the U.s. racks up an averaged medical cost of about 8000 per year. This is what is spent per capita per person. Total cost, not just their portion.
The healthcare.gov website alone cost about 400 million. There were ten contracts awarded that total over one billion dollars in heathcare related dealings.
Why are we so stupid? Just give each person in the country a "healthcare number" (think social security number) and it has an allotted one million dollars to be used for only healthcare for their life. It would be cheaper.......................
Where are you going to get the 2.5 trillion every year to cover it and how would you prevent doctors, hospitals and drug companies from abusing it?

 

[darthtang aw]

Where are you going to get the 2.5 trillion every year to cover it and how would you prevent doctors, hospitals and drug companies from abusing it?
Where do you get 2.5 trillion as the cost in what i am saying? As to costs, peoe can still shop around for their doctor. There is just an allotted amount of money for their lifetime healthcare. Call it a medical card that they use like snap. Except it is loaded once and that is it. No paperwork onthe part of the hospital to insurance companies or medicare or medicade would reduce administration cost immediately.

 

[2quills]

You said average cost per person a year is $8000. There's about 314 million in the country. That's roughly 2.5 trillion a year spent on health care right now. I can only imagine how much we'll spend once we flood the market with people that have existing conditions that are in need of expensive treatment. My guess is those numbers will sky rocket for the first x amount of years initially.
314,000,000 people x $1,000,000 = 314 trillion to cough up for everyone in order to start. But then you have to worry about patients, doctors etc who would invariably abuse/spend it cause it's there.
If we had answeres for those questions I'd be all for the idea.

 

[darthtang aw]

You said average cost per person a year is $8000. There's about 314 million in the country. That's roughly 2.5 trillion a year spent on health care right now. I can only imagine how much we'll spend once we flood the market with people that have existing conditions that are in need of expensive treatment. My guess is those numbers will sky rocket for the first x amount of years initially.
314,000,000 people x $1,000,000 = 314 trillion to cough up for everyone in order to start. But then you have to worry about patients, doctors etc who would invariably abuse/spend it cause it's there.
If we had answeres for those questions I'd be all for the idea.
You are doing the math wrong. It would be one million dollars for their ENTIRE life. not one million per year. Treat it as a credit card...hell that is how SS and Medicare is treated...and this would completely eliminate one of those. Plus due to current age and such not everyone would use their full allotment.
At an average of 8000 a year...even if they used 8000 each year (which typically is not the case) and lived to be a hundred years old...that would only total 800,000 dollars used during that time. If they run out, then they are screwed or can get health insurance coverage....health insurance coverage could still be used as some might want just a prescription plan so they don't have to dip into their medical fund.
Since people would still be shopping for their doctors and such it gives them power to negotiate as well...Doctors office visit costs are standard pretty much...but if they knew they were getting money without having to haggle with insurance companies or government medicare red tape, and any and all services could be funded, you might actually see cost go down due to competition....supply and demand....Right now the demand is on heathcare policies, not on doctor or hospital prices as we are at the whim of what the heath insurance is willing to pay and to who.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I personally believe that it is the doctors and the hospitals that are ripping off insurance companies.

I cut my finger this last Summer and made the mistake of going to a hospital. A doctor took one look at my finger, whispered something to a nurse and left the room. ($680). Then, I waited in a room and they gave me a pain pill and had me stick my finger in some iodine for 30 minutes. ($1250). They highly recommended that I get an X-ray to make sure there was no foreign material in my finger. ($420+$28). Without health insurance: $2,378.00

Now, all I did was went in with a cut finger. I got charged nearly $2,400.00 for a doctor visit, pain pill, iodine, and an xray. They wanted $100 before they could even treat me.

(granted, I severed a nerve, which caused great pain and I still don't have feeling in that finger, and never will.) I could have done what they did at home - I had a pain killer at home and some iodine. I knew I didn't need no stinkin' X-ray, but they did it anyway.


Before talking about how taxpayers should pay for medical bills, why aren't there more discussions on the RAMPANT abuse of the system by medical billing, doctors, hospitals and so on?

 

[2quills]

Abuse and fraud have always been there. Those are key reasons why affordable health coverage is hard to come by to begin with.
Darth, people will not blow through a million dollars their first year in. But you're still looking at a minimum of around 2.5 trillion a year according to the $8000 a year per american mark as stated. That money has to come from somewhere. Even if we all but illiminated the need for administrative duties that's a small bite out of a pretty big donut. $800 out of $8000+. Knock off 10% or 250,000,000,000. We'd still have to find a way to cover 2.25 trillion. These figures would not reflect the addition of sick people granted free access.
It's an expensive beast of an animal to tame health care is. Which is why we didn't need it shoved down our throats the way it was at a time like this. But the O` meister was looking for a trophy so here we are.

 

[darthtang aw]

Abuse and fraud have always been there. Those are key reasons why affordable health coverage is hard to come by to begin with.
Darth, people will not blow through a million dollars their first year in. But you're still looking at a minimum of around 2.5 trillion a year according to the $8000 a year per american mark as stated. That money has to come from somewhere. Even if we all but illuminated the need for administrative duties that's a small bite out of a pretty big donut. $800 out of $8000+. Knock off 10% or 250,000,000,000. We'd still have to find a way to cover 2.25 trillion. These figures would not reflect the addition of sick people granted free access.
It's an expensive beast of an animal to tame health care is. Which is why we didn't need it shoved down our throats the way it was at a time like this. But the O` meister was looking for a trophy so here we are.
The majority of healthcare costs come towards the end of life....Medicare would roll into the new "program" to cover the costs from the elderly initially. The young would not spend 8000 a year initially, so the money would have time to build up and as I said, roll medicare into the plan for cost coverage. medicare currently costs over 600 billion per year and is estimated to be over 900 billion in 6 years. Obamacare start up costs are estimated between 1.7 and 2.6 trillion dollars depending on how it is interpreted......
We obviously spent the money equalling your figure.............

 

[darthtang aw]

I personally believe that it is the doctors and the hospitals that are ripping off insurance companies.
I cut my finger this last Summer and made the mistake of going to a hospital. A doctor took one look at my finger, whispered something to a nurse and left the room. ($680). Then, I waited in a room and they gave me a pain pill and had me stick my finger in some iodine for 30 minutes. ($1250). They highly recommended that I get an X-ray to make sure there was no foreign material in my finger. ($420+$28). Without health insurance: $2,378.00
Now, all I did was went in with a cut finger. I got charged nearly $2,400.00 for a doctor visit, pain pill, iodine, and an xray. They wanted $100 before they could even treat me.
(granted, I severed a nerve, which caused great pain and I still don't have feeling in that finger, and never will.) I could have done what they did at home - I had a pain killer at home and some iodine. I knew I didn't need no stinkin' X-ray, but they did it anyway.
Before talking about how taxpayers should pay for medical bills, why aren't there more discussions on the RAMPANT abuse of the system by medical billing, doctors, hospitals and so on?
That you can blame on medical malpractice lawsuits....................
Do away with UEI tax credits to help fund it as well.

 

[2quills]

Ouch, Seth. I went to a little old country doctor a few years back for a torn muscle. Got an x-Ray and a dry cast for a cool $200 bucks lol.
Perhaps we could heavily tax migrant workers and let them help us out for a change.

 

[beth]

Physicians pay a hefty fee for insurance, especially surgeons, but their pricing is still highway robbery. Why does a single doctor need a min. of 5 full time employees in their office, all full time and all with benefits? Who pays for that?

The operation of medical profession in this country sucks. When you go to a "specialists", most people get to see the physician's assistant not the specialist. Why are we paying more to see a non-doctor? Well, the specialist is still charging for that as if the patient actually is being treated by the specialist. AND the specialist can see twice as many patients since the physician's assistant is seeing half the practice.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/396596/but-government-is-so-efficient-a-look-at-the-numbers#post_3533898
I personally believe that it is the doctors and the hospitals that are ripping off insurance companies.
I cut my finger this last Summer and made the mistake of going to a hospital. A doctor took one look at my finger, whispered something to a nurse and left the room. ($680). Then, I waited in a room and they gave me a pain pill and had me stick my finger in some iodine for 30 minutes. ($1250). They highly recommended that I get an X-ray to make sure there was no foreign material in my finger. ($420+$28). Without health insurance: $2,378.00
Now, all I did was went in with a cut finger. I got charged nearly $2,400.00 for a doctor visit, pain pill, iodine, and an xray. They wanted $100 before they could even treat me.
(granted, I severed a nerve, which caused great pain and I still don't have feeling in that finger, and never will.) I could have done what they did at home - I had a pain killer at home and some iodine. I knew I didn't need no stinkin' X-ray, but they did it anyway.
Before talking about how taxpayers should pay for medical bills, why aren't there more discussions on the RAMPANT abuse of the system by medical billing, doctors, hospitals and so on?
And you have hit the exact reason reason any third party system and most especially a government system will not work. With a government system (and even the third party as well) the goal will be to reduce that $2,400 price. As the price is held below market values providers will provide less and consumers will demand more. Creating shortages. As happens in every centrally controlled economy.
But with market forces in work, you simple don't go the the emergency room again for minor stuff. So supply and demand are met and no shortages.

 

[2quills]

I wonder how much demand will actually get met considering we already have a shortage of doctors compared to some of these other countries that are already on a single payer system.

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/396596/but-government-is-so-efficient-a-look-at-the-numbers#post_3533907
Physicians pay a hefty fee for insurance, especially surgeons, but their pricing is still highway robbery. Why does a single doctor need a min. of 5 full time employees in their office, all full time and all with benefits? Most of those people are dealing with insurance companies. If we had a single payer system 4/5 of those people would have no job. Who pays for that?

The operation of medical profession in this country sucks. When you go to a "specialists", most people get to see the physician's assistant not the specialist. Why are we paying more to see a non-doctor? Well, the specialist is still charging for that as if the patient actually is being treated by the specialist. AND the specialist can see twice as many patients since the physician's assistant is seeing half the practice. In my state if a specialist (or any physician, for that matter) charges for his/her services, when those services were provided by a PA, that physician is committing fraud. There is a separate billing code for PA services.

 

[darthtang aw]

Affordable Boat Act
(ABA)
The government has just passed a new law called: "The affordable boat act"
declaring that every citizen MUST purchase a new boat, by April 2014.
These "affordable" boats will cost an average of $24,000-$124,000 each.
This does not include taxes, trailers, towing fees, insurance, fuel,
docking and storage fees, maintenance or repair
costs.
This law has been passed, because until now, typically only financially
responsible and working people have been able to purchase boats. This new
laws ensures that every American can now have a "affordable" boat of their
own, because everyone is "entitled" to a
boat.
In order to make sure everyone purchases an affordable boat, the costs of
owning a boat will increase on average of 250-400% per year. This way,
working taxpayers will pay more for something that other people don't want
or can't afford to maintain. But to be fair, people who
can’t afford to maintain their boat will be regularly fined and children (under
the age of 26) can use their parents boats to party on until they turn
27; then must purchase their
own boat.
If you already have a boat, you can keep yours (just kidding; no you can't). If you don't want or don't
need a boat, you are required to buy one anyhow. If you refuse to buy one,
you will be fined until you purchase one or face imprisonment. For
those that cannot afford one, they will get a free boat with a monthly
check for all ownership costs listed above at taxpayer
expense.
Failure to use the boat will also result in fines. People living in the desert,
inner cities or areas with no access to lakes are not exempt. Age, motion
sickness, experience, knowledge nor lack of desire are acceptable excuses
for not using your boat.
A government review board will decide everything, including; when, where, how often and for what purposes
you can use your boat along with how many people can ride your boat and
determine if one is too old or healthy enough to be able to use their
boat. They will also decide if your boat has out lived its usefulness or
if you must purchase specific accessories, or a newer and more expensive
boat. (Cash for Clunkers guidelines will be
used).
Government officials are exempt from this new law. If they want a boat, they and
their families can obtain boats free, at the expense of tax payers.
Unions, special interest and major donors are also
exempt.
If the government can force Americans to buy health care, they can force you
to buy a boat....or ANYTHING else..
Yea...it's
that stupid...