Calling car guys/gals out there could use a hand

[reefforbrains]

Have a ford focus in my shop...ha ha go ahead and laugh.I know- a FORD in MY shop..... I hate working on the little rollerskates, but I have to fix this little thing.
It was brought to me as as stuttering. like Hesitating.
started with the basics, thinking clogged fuel filter. So changed fuel filter, air filter and changed oil just to be kind.
Went on test drive and everything was smooth and nice. But then it started to act up on me. Turn out it was not hesitating, but when I was driving it it was overheating that was leading to misfireing.
I let it cool then drove it back to the shop.
The fans were not coming on, I tried turning on AC full blast to override but nothin happened, AC worked but no fans.
I disconnected and ran a jump direct to each fan and they work fine. I changed the temp sending probe in Thermostat housing,...nothing...pulled and changed ALL fuses and relays for system just so they were not part of the recipe. Pulled the top hose to see and water pump works and therm itself was opening and closing. Water pump is fine.
Car still is overheating....I know theres more than me into cars on here and would appreciate any help.

 

[reefforbrains]

Addittional info.
Thought perhaps it was blown head gasket from overheating/warping. Heres my logic-
If HG was blown- there would be a leak,...Either water in oil would make chocolate milk OR water in cylinder would leave one clean plug and the rest dirty.
Compression tests fine and all plugs are fine. (replaced plugs and wires too so could rule out the misfire, also good deed for maint) oil clean and nice. just thought to add that before someone tossed it in there.

 

[scubaguy]

Did you check the air filter housing for oil. I had a Ford Escort and it had bad rings that was causing blow by. It was heating the engine up and blowing oil into the air filter housing. Just a suggestion. If sluggish it might also be the Throttle position sensor or timing belt.

 

[reefforbrains]

When I changed the air filter It had some misc debris but no oil. I did vaccuum it out the airbox with a shopvac and even replaced the PCV valve for good measure.
Throttle sensor and injection system seems fine. Car runs very nice and smooth at all RPM bands so timing is no issue before it overtemps. Can start it and run diagnostics on it with no issues. Code reader also shows no data. Still scratching my head, Anyone else have imput?

 

[scubaguy]

I am out of suggestions. With it heating up I just do not know since you said you replaced all the fan relay switches.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
Have a ford focus in my shop...ha ha go ahead and laugh.I know- a FORD in MY shop..... I hate working on the little rollerskates, but I have to fix this little thing.
It was brought to me as as stuttering. like Hesitating.
started with the basics, thinking clogged fuel filter. So changed fuel filter, air filter and changed oil just to be kind.
Went on test drive and everything was smooth and nice. But then it started to act up on me. Turn out it was not hesitating, but when I was driving it it was overheating that was leading to misfireing.
I let it cool then drove it back to the shop.
The fans were not coming on, I tried turning on AC full blast to override but nothin happened, AC worked but no fans.
I disconnected and ran a jump direct to each fan and they work fine. I changed the temp sending probe in Thermostat housing,...nothing...pulled and changed ALL fuses and relays for system just so they were not part of the recipe. Pulled the top hose to see and water pump works and therm itself was opening and closing. Water pump is fine.
Car still is overheating....I know theres more than me into cars on here and would appreciate any help.
Whats the original gripe...overheating?
Pump works, fans work, maybe an obstruction in the cooling system somewhere?
I would first do a Cyl leakdown test to make sure the head gasket isnt blown because you wont always get the milky oil until its really bad. The head may just be warped and not start leaking until its hot. After I know the head gasket is good Id let it cool then remove the thermostat and backflush the cooling system to make sure its free from obstruction, then run it without a thermostat to see if it overheats.
It may be faster to simply pull the head and have a look.

 

[tangman99]

Maybe you didn't list it, but from I read it look like you never got the fans to come on without direct wiring them? Did you drive it with them directly wired and working and it still overheated? Are they now coming on as they should when it overheats?
Maybe the thermostat is sticking and not always opening. Did you replace it just to be sure? Not an expensive part.
That's all I have. HTH

 

[fenrir]

I own a 2001 ZX3 and I have always found this site helpful for Focus problems! www.myfordfocus.com

 

[misfit]

What make model is it. Do you have a hand held OBD2 computer or something like it
1 Are you going by the hot/cold dash gage can you conferm its good or bad.mabey temp hook up a real gauge
2 do you have good coolant flow through radiator is there blockage
3 I have seen water pumps with the impeller just spinning on the shaft or just barely spinning on the shaft.is the belt tight/good
4 Mabey pull the thermostat and let coolant run free to see if it runs cooler and or overide fans to stay on constant while you test it
5 How fast does it heat up really quick or does it take some time.
6 If oil does not look milky and all spark plugs look all the same i would prob rule out head casket.did you do a cyl test hot and cold or just cold
7 bring to nearest recycle center for scrap
Thats all i have right off the top of my head for now

 

[30-xtra high]

sounds like you're basically buying his entire car.. it seems so complicated, but my guess is that its something simple.. i'm assuming you are a shop also, not just repair, so i'd say just replace the fans, although you can get them to work, mybe they have just enough juice to turn on, then later die out.. just a suggestion though..

 

[usmc6026]

check for a relay box on the drivers side near the air cleaner that is usually the culprit if you havent figured it out by mon. give me a call at my shop at 631.981.6471 ask for tony.

 

[zman1]

For the fan issue - Did you check the fusable link. Ford did a saftey recall on a few models where a bad fan was burning up a power resistor (used for two/low speed) and wiring harness. If the car didn't catch fire, the wiring burnt open. The fix was to put a in-line fusable link with the fan and repair any wiring. This is the cooling fan behind the radiator...

 

[reefforbrains]

Tony- those relays are the ones I replaced, Also all the fuses. I still will call you on Monday even if just to go back over the obvious I may have missed.
Zman- This is what I am looking for, but chasing the wires all around and no inline fuses or loose connections. Where would this little resistor or fusable link your speaking of be? Yes the electric fans behind the radiator.

 

[zman1]

The fuseable link they added to my car was a plug-in. The normal connector that plugged into the fan was unplugged and a small section was added. Male and Female on the ends. This little add has a fusible link in it. The wiring on my old 95 Contour ran back under the air cleaner, if I remember right. The resistor was mounted to the wheel well under it. I would go look for you, but my kid totaled it 2 years ago... It was a two speed and as I mentioned, the resistor was there for low speed. Not sure where they normally fuse the fans, but on this/my model, obviously it was an afterthought -LOL. Fuseable links normally have what looks like a Tab on them at the swollen spot on the wire. Maybe your missing a ground since it sounds like neither speeds are working.

 

[reefforbrains]

Thanks again Zman- Sorry If I wasnt clear originally. I did backtrack from the Fans back to the relay power supply source, but I cannot get the the source wire to check for a ground problem in the power supply. I can only get to the closes plug outside the box, and from there all works fine when I jump it so I know theres no short and no damage in the line from Relay to Fan. Also pulled the relay and checked with Meter and it IS getting power, just no signal INTO the relay to activte it

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
Have a ford focus in my shop...ha ha go ahead and laugh.I know- a FORD in MY shop..... I hate working on the little rollerskates, but I have to fix this little thing.
It was brought to me as as stuttering. like Hesitating.
started with the basics, thinking clogged fuel filter. So changed fuel filter, air filter and changed oil just to be kind.
Went on test drive and everything was smooth and nice. But then it started to act up on me. Turn out it was not hesitating, but when I was driving it it was overheating that was leading to misfireing.
I let it cool then drove it back to the shop.
The fans were not coming on, I tried turning on AC full blast to override but nothin happened, AC worked but no fans.
I disconnected and ran a jump direct to each fan and they work fine. I changed the temp sending probe in Thermostat housing,...nothing...pulled and changed ALL fuses and relays for system just so they were not part of the recipe. Pulled the top hose to see and water pump works and therm itself was opening and closing. Water pump is fine.
Car still is overheating....I know theres more than me into cars on here and would appreciate any help.
Is the temp sending unit in the thermostat housing the only temp sending unit? When you plug a scanner in, do you get a reliable reading from the temp sending unit? From everything you've listed, I'd say the problem's got to be a wiring or connector problem of some sort... other than just being a Ford.
As for overheating and a potential blown head gasket, have you done a hydrocarbon test on the cooling system?
Good luck!

 

[scubaguy]

Hey ReefforBrains did you figure out the problem?

 

[reefforbrains]

yes,..was a nightmare, to replace the waterpump in this little car you actually have to pull out the engine. Brilliant engineering tell ya.... .
Really didnt think the water pump was bad, Doesnt make sense that it can flow intermittenly even with a direct drive, but I guess thats normal on these little squeekers. They dont flow like bigblocks, just kinda circulate at thier own pace. Since I didnt need to replace the waterpump. I went through everything and replaced the front sub harnesses and the fuse box. Theres also a hidden diode behind the glove box that was showing issues so it got replaced too. There was a bad ground in there somewhere and so I just ordered the new harness and tossed it in. Works great now. New therm, therm housing, temp probe, wiring harness, fuse box, firewall diode, relays and radiator flushed. Changed oil, air and fuel filter, plugs and wires too just for sake of playing around and engine.....She is happy.
Parts were dirt cheap for this little car I will say that so its all good.
Now I can go back to working on REAL ENGINES, the 502 is on track for being ready for August.