Can't find my starfish, think its a serpant star

tax lady

Member
Can't find my starfish. I can't read what the name of it is, but it is brown and smooth and long legs. Matt said it is a meat eater. Exchanged him for the green brittle star that was eating some of my inhabitants in tank.
He just today could not be found.
Had a sally lightfoot and emerald crab die. my nitrates were a little high (about 10) but thought it was cause of the sally that I found dead.
Changed water (aprox 10%) twice in the last 5 days.
So what in the heck could have happened to my star. I have a 29gallon aquapod with all the trimmings.
Looked in the back overflow and didn't find him there.
Any suggestions?|?? Sure would appreciate them..
 

flower

Well-Known Member

Serpent stars are seldom seen. They can wiggle into rocks and crevices. My serpents are huge and I only see them if I put a chunk of shrimp in the tank for them and draw them out.
Even then all that is usually seen is just the tentacles grabbing the chunk of shrimp and pulling it into the rock.
I went like 3 months without seeing mine, and then one day there it was, curled up in a corner by an algae spot where he thought I couldn't see him.
 

jackri

Active Member
My serpent star hasn't touched any of the 200ish other inhabitants.
I know where he hides and try to feed him a shrimp pellet or two every week. He's cool.. hardly seen and doesn't bother anything (had him about a year)... but he's not nearly as elusive as my porcylin crab I thought was dead 3 different times.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by jackri
http:///forum/post/3033902
My serpent star hasn't touched any of the 200ish other inhabitants.
I know where he hides and try to feed him a shrimp pellet or two every week. He's cool.. hardly seen and doesn't bother anything (had him about a year)... but he's not nearly as elusive as my porcylin crab I thought was dead 3 different times.
Exactly...There are so many critters that just disappear into the rock when they get in the tank. They don't tell you that when you buy them. When you see a cheap price tag...that's my sign.
I got a huge serpent star for $18.00 I have seen it three times. What’s funny is that I thought my serpent was dead, so I bought the other. When I fed it a chunk of shrimp, I thought, Hey he seems smaller. Then the big tentacle came out. I realized my serpent wasn't dead after all, but much bigger than the last time I saw him. Now I have two big serpents.
My story isn't as funny as the guy who bought another Kole Tang so his kid wouldn't find out about the dead fish, only to dicover he now has two.
 

ophiura

Active Member
How do you know, BTW, the green brittlestar was eating your stuff? Did you have proof, eg it was huge, or were things just disappearing? I am concerned you are having things die.
What is your specific gravity? Other parameters (concerned about the water changes - these animals are very sensitive to changes). How did you acclimate it? What are you feeding it (what did you feed the green one?). They do hide, yes, but with inverts dying there is a concern.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
I agree with Ophiura there are other things going on, a nitrate reading of 10ppm shouldn't cause death in anything.
 

tax lady

Member
You are all correct about the star hiding, and that something else must be wrong. I found my serpent star in the overflow, even tho I looked there for it before and couldn't find it. But it was sort of lifeless. So yes there is something else going on.
Since all my tests came out o.k., except for the nitrates, wwhich were not high enough for all the deaths. So I brought a water sample to lfs. They were all o.k.,,he suggested that it sounded like an electircal current since it was invertibras that was affected. So I got another pump, it is running inside of the tank till I can get a long 1/2 plastic hose to attach it to tomorrow. Also took out the heater which I think was defected since I bought it. All in all it seems like everything will be o.k.
Sure do appreciate all the input from you guys...thanks a lot..!!
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Unless you were feeling an electric shock when you were working in the tank I doubt the problem is stay current.
You still haven't mentioned what your SG is, I have seen numerous post recently of LFS recommending a SG that is much too low for invertebrates. You should also post all of your test results here the knowledge base here is much better than 99% of the LFS's out there and you will have a much better chance of solving your problem here than you will at the LFS.
 

ophiura

Active Member
I highly doubt it is electrical because "invertebrates are affected."
Inverts are far less tolerant of water conditions than fish are, and what can be "perfect" for fish can be fatal (sometimes instantly) for inverts.
So we need ammonia, nitrite, pH, calcium, specific gravity, alkalinity just to start. Any treatment with copper, or brass fittings, are important too. Any treatment with any additive is important to know. Eg many people labor under the impression (often from their LFS) that Iodine is a required supplement for inverts, along with strontium, etc, and add it happily and freely...when this can be totally unecessary and sometimes toxic.
 

tax lady

Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3035738
I highly doubt it is electrical because "invertebrates are affected."
Inverts are far less tolerant of water conditions than fish are, and what can be "perfect" for fish can be fatal (sometimes instantly) for inverts.
So we need ammonia, nitrite, pH, calcium, specific gravity, alkalinity just to start. Any treatment with copper, or brass fittings, are important too. Any treatment with any additive is important to know. Eg many people labor under the impression (often from their LFS) that Iodine is a required supplement for inverts, along with strontium, etc, and add it happily and freely...when this can be totally unecessary and sometimes toxic.
No additives whatsoever.
nitrite 0
ph 7.9 or 8
sg . 1.024.5
nitrate 10-20
don't know abotu alka and calcium but lfs tested that and said that it was o.k.
 

sk8shorty01

Active Member
I am no expert on stars (ophiura wins that title) but I would say that your pH is probably part of the problem. Here are a few more questions for you.
What are you testing the SG with (hydrometer or refractometer)?
How long are you acclimating your inverts?
What process of acclimation are you using?
 

tax lady

Member
I am acclimating by putting bag in water to get to water temp., adding a little water in bag at a time. It is not acclimating though cause most I have had for a while, esp the emerald crabs.
The sg is tested with the little arrow thingy that goes up and down.
Why would ph be a problem at 7.9 to 8. ??
I am putting in baking soda mixture to get it up..was lower than that before.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Stop adding the buffer (baking soda), get a alkilinity test kit and a calcium test kit and only dose the buffer if the alkilinity is low. You cannot fix Ph with buffer. If your Ph was lower than 7.9 its possible you have a large amount of disolved CO2 in your system. Flow is very important in a saltwater tank and most of the oxygen/CO2 exchange occurs at the surface and if there is not addiquete surface aggitation and an oily buildup on the surface the water will be low on oxygen and high in CO2 causing a low Ph and possibly could be the cause of the issues with your inverts. I am not sure what effect low oxygen and high CO2 has on inverts but I am sure that Ophiria will have some input.
I also would recommend getting a refractometer to test SG, you can find a decent one for about $40. The needle type hydrometers are very inaccurate and can be off as much as .005 which could mean the difference between life and death for you tank inhabitants.
 

tax lady

Member
Since I purchased another maxi jet 900, there is lots of flow. And yes I was getting a film on the top of water. But the flow now will help that. All in my tank seem to be doing well now.
But---now I have a huge bloom of something. I think it may be Aipisai. I started another thread in here about that.
Am not going to purchase anything else until I find out all that is wrong with my tank.
I will get the test kits you mentioned. Also today got an electrical tester, forgot the name. And will get a ground probe also. Maybe with all this I can find out something. If any of you have any other ideas, please inform me.
thanks in advance.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Can't use the tester to test for stay current, but the ground probe will remove all doubt if there is a bad device in your tank it should pop the breaker.
 

tax lady

Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/3037059
Can't use the tester to test for stay current, but the ground probe will remove all doubt if there is a bad device in your tank it should pop the breaker.
What is stay current?
 

natclanwy

Active Member
Current released by defective equipment in your tank or current that travels through salt creep on cords and light fixtures to your tank.
 

tax lady

Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/3037076
Current released by defective equipment in your tank or current that travels through salt creep on cords and light fixtures to your tank.
thanks--but what good is it if I can't test it for current running through my tank? I had read before that that was what was recommended. I am reading the info on it now. "How to test for stray voltage". It is called a "voltage meter". So are you telling me that this won't test for current running through my tank. I paid almost $20 for it today.
 

natclanwy

Active Member
It will tell you there is voltage in your tank, but it will also tell you there is voltage in your tank when there really isn't.
SCSInet explained it the best so I'll just quote him:
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3019041
You can't effectively check for stray voltage with conventional testing equipment. Many folks try to use multimeters to check, but the problem is that they are sensitive enough to read the normally occuring harmless eddy currents and give false readings.
The best policy is to operate your tank on a GFI and with a grounding probe. The GFI will trip if a grounding probe is used and a stray voltage fault exists.
Grounding probes alone without the GFI can make the problem worse. What they can cause is a condition where fault current flows continously through the water, from the point where the fault exists to the grounding probe - making the problem worse.
Generally speaking, 90% of the time that stray voltage gets blamed for a problem, it's not. Fish that are suffering from so-called "stray voltage" do not die suddenly, unless the problem is very serious (where you'd get a painful shock from putting your hand in the water).
I'd look elsewhere. A few questions... how long has the tank been operational? What are your parameters apart from what you listed? I have trouble believing that nitrates and phosphates could be zero as well. How big is the tank and what other livestock do you have? Where do you get your source water? How long did you have the fish that died?
 

tax lady

Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/3037119
It will tell you there is voltage in your tank, but it will also tell you there is voltage in your tank when there really isn't.
SCSInet explained it the best so I'll just quote him:
Wow, what a dilemma. Maybe I should get my $20 back. I have not opened the package yet.
Would like other comments on this please.
Also, what is GFI? Is it something I have to buy with the grounding probe?
 
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